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Old 04-03-2014, 01:52 PM
JJDOBBER79 (Jas)
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beginner CCD question

HI all,
I have a beginner question and I know next to nothing about AP so please be gentle. is it possible to get a ccd camera which is capable of realtime viewing of lunar, planets, nebula and galaxies in a plug and play manner. To elaborate, basically I want to insert a ccd into the focuser, point it at an object using the finder and have whatever I would otherwise see visually displayed on a monitor instead. Can I then just click away taking instant photos or does exposure play a part in which case it would take hours to take 1 photo. If ccd cameras are capable of this, i will consider buying one, I understand it wont be cheap (if it exists).
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Old 04-03-2014, 03:15 PM
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billdan (Bill)
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Hi,
With a webcam or a DSLR with live view you can view the moon and the brighter planets in real time. However for nebula's and galaxies you need to hold the shutter open for many seconds or even minutes to get a decent picture to form.

It also dpends on the size of the telescope's aperture as to how quick the image will resolve.

To get a really nice image of a nebula or galaxy you will need to stack many images on top of each other to reduce the background noise.

There is free astro software availble to do this.

Regards

Bill
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Old 04-03-2014, 03:29 PM
JJDOBBER79 (Jas)
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Thanks Bill. so, not possible with the brighter nebula ie carina and orion even with high quality ccd?
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Old 04-03-2014, 03:57 PM
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alistairsam
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hi Jas,

to take realtime pics of nebulae and other objects, you might have to look at video astronomy.
This uses very sensitive security ccd cameras and feeds video in realtime.
so you can see objects in colour instantly although the resolution is low.
you can then take screen captures.
this is how you'd take instant images.

other option is to use a colour ccd or a dslr to image objects. this requires a reasonably accurate mount capable of tracking with motors.

if you then polar align the mount carefully, you can start taking 30 second to 60 second exposures without the stars trailing. at this exposure length, you will see details of bright nebulae like eta carina. but galaxies and other fainter objects require much longer exposures to reveal any detail. Software like Deepskystacker is used to combine these 30 or 60sec images to bring out more detail and reduce noise.

the video astronomy cameras are typically 0.0001 lux low light cameras so they can display these faint objects in real time or 30second exposures without any processing.

a good start is to get a second hand canon dslr from ebay and put that on your mount using the camera lens and take 30 second exposures to get some widefield images.

what mount and scope do you have or plan to buy?
really depends what you want to image, how much you're willing to spend and how complex or accurate you want it to be.

the night skies network is a good site where you can join and see "live" feeds from users around the world who transmit their video images from the telescopes. you can take a look at screen grabs to see what they look like.
http://www.nightskiesnetwork.com/
typical cameras are the samsung security cameras or the gstar-ex.

useful links

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHiCNmYdkaE
this shows live footage from a modded video security camera.

http://www.ssmassey.com/vidast.html
http://www.myastroshop.com.au/guides/gstar/


Cheers
Alistair
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Old 04-03-2014, 04:02 PM
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alistairsam
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There is a good introduction on the Projects and articles section here on several aspects of photography.

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/63-671-0-0-1-0.html

Cheers
Alistair
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Old 04-03-2014, 04:23 PM
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billdan (Bill)
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Here I was typing away and I got timed out before I could send the reply. So I'll try again.

Basically I have a QHY12 CCD it is a 12 Mega pixel camera with 5 micron pixels its efficiency is only 50% at the green wavelength.

It takes 25 secs to download a high res colour image to the computer, in low res mono mode (used for framing and focus) it is almost real time but little detail.

To get a resemblance of the Carina or Orion Nebula's the shutter needs to be open for at least 10 sec's.

I have an 8in Skywatcher reflector, If I had a 16in mirror that time would reduce to 2.5 secs. If I had a Sbig camera with 85% efficiency it would be further reduced.

So for real time a CCD is probably not the answer.

Bill
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Old 04-03-2014, 08:47 PM
JJDOBBER79 (Jas)
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Thanks Bill and Alistair. The night sky network looks like exactly what I'm talking about. I will watch this closely. That video was great bill. I see what you mean with galaxies. Not a lot of detail without processing.
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Old 07-03-2014, 09:52 AM
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fjs (Frank)
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Hi Bill and Alistair, As my first post on Ice in Space, I just wanted to chime in and toss some flowers your way. I spend my time on another astro website. I asked pretty much the same question as Jas and got crickets. It's great that you are willing to help.

Thanks for asking the question Jas, I'm glad I saw it.
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Old 07-03-2014, 11:44 AM
rally
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Jas,

The Mallincam does exactly the sort of thing you are after.

http://mallincam.tripod.com/index.html
Try one of the reviews for the how and whys

Its basically a specially made chilled video camera that has its own dedicated hardware that stacks the images in real time to reduce noise and enhance detail and present them
You have control over many of the settings

Not a cheap camera but there arent a lot of alternatives that I am aware of.
Astromart often has them come up secondhand

Rally
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Old 09-03-2014, 12:52 AM
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billdan (Bill)
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Welcome to IIS Frank, I bet you were having withdrawal symptoms with Cloudy Nights off the air for 2 days ( Its back now).

Pop in anytime mate and ask away, I'm not an expert but will always try and help out given my limited experience.

Regards
Bil
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  #11  
Old 09-03-2014, 05:45 PM
JJDOBBER79 (Jas)
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Thanks rally,
I will keep an eye on astromart
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