Turner Painting

irose_57 · #1 10-08-2013, 09:44 AM

I was at the Turner exhibition at the NGA last week and saw this painting.

http://www.tate.org.uk/art/images/wo.../N00459_10.jpg

What planet is in conjunction with the moon? Painting was first exhibited in 1797.

Ian

mithrandir (Andrew) · #2 10-08-2013, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irose_57

What planet is in conjunction with the moon? Painting was first exhibited in 1797.

Ian, it's a painting so it may not be literal. Assuming it was a real scene you need to know when it was painted. All you know is it is around full moon. Without more information the best bets would be Venus or Jupiter.

blink138 (Pat) · #3 10-08-2013, 02:10 PM

wow what a painting though!
pat

OzEclipse (Joe Cali) · #4 10-08-2013, 10:03 PM

Ian,

I was at the Turner show last weekend and I wondered the same thing as you. Seeing the paintings in the flesh is nothing like seeing them on the web. He captures luminosity One of his water colours looked as luminous as an oil. If IIS members can get to Canberra, make sure you see it.

It could of course, as Andrew suggests, be from his imagination. If it's at full moon and even semi-realistic it can't possibly be Venus so it could be Jupiter Mars or Saturn or a bright star.

Assuming he would prefer to paint out doors in Summer months I did a quick scan of the sky in SNPP for summer full moons 1796-7. Using the painted diameter of the Moon for angular scale and found a possible solution after sunset with Jupiter on 9 Sept 1797 and on Sept 15 1796. It's possible it was painted or at least sketched on one of those dates.

Joe

irose_57 · #5 10-08-2013, 10:46 PM

Thanks everyone and great answers for beginners like me!

The question came about as we thought it may have been Venus but I wasn't sure if Venus was ever in conjunction with a rising moon? Is it?

Turner painted many pictures with the moon in it so to see such a prominent star/planet I think is more than artistic expression - especially with the historical detail of many of his other paintings.

Ian

Liz · #6 11-08-2013, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OzEclipse

Ian,

I was at the Turner show last weekend and I wondered the same thing as you. Seeing the paintings in the flesh is nothing like seeing them on the web. He captures luminosity One of his water colours looked as luminous as an oil. If IIS members can get to Canberra, make sure you see it.

It could of course, as Andrew suggests, be from his imagination. If it's at full moon and even semi-realistic it can't possibly be Venus so it could be Jupiter Mars or Saturn or a bright star.

Assuming he would prefer to paint out doors in Summer months I did a quick scan of the sky in SNPP for summer full moons 1796-7. Using the painted diameter of the Moon for angular scale and found a possible solution after sunset with Jupiter on 9 Sept 1797 and on Sept 15 1796. It's possible it was painted or at least sketched on one of those dates.

Joe

Beautiful painting indeed .... and well done Joe, let us deem it Jupiter.

OzEclipse (Joe Cali) · #7 11-08-2013, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irose_57

Thanks everyone and great answers for beginners like me!

The question came about as we thought it may have been Venus but I wasn't sure if Venus was ever in conjunction with a rising moon? Is it?

Turner painted many pictures with the moon in it so to see such a prominent star/planet I think is more than artistic expression - especially with the historical detail of many of his other paintings.

Ian

Ian,

I did mention that Venus is impossible in my post but I didn't really explain it clearly enough for beginners. Venus orbit is inside the Earth's. The maximum elongation Venus can be observed from the sun is about 45 degrees east or west. A full moon is of course almost 180 degrees elongation and so Venus can't appear near the rising full moon.

Joe

irose_57 · #8 13-08-2013, 06:41 PM

Thanks Joe!

Had to do a bit of research on 'elongation' but I understand now.

Ian

rogerco (Roger) · #9 13-08-2013, 08:15 PM

My first thought on seeing the photo of the painting without its current title was that it was a Sunset with Venus through a smoggy London atmosphere.

Looking at the Tate gallery's catalog entry for it indicate that it is either Turners first or second attempt at painting and that there is indeed some suggestion that it might be a sunset.

But as others have said its a painting, and the notes indicate it was not painted from life but from a sketch.

The Tate is a great site to visit if you like this period in art.