Petrol

[xelasnave]

I recall the Government telling us we needed a large tax on our petrol for our own good years ago. I guess we must still believe its a good idea as I think we pay 10 cents in the dollars tax or is it more ? I recon that view may have to be retunk cause it had to do about not letting fuel get to large a slice of the production budget.. seems with current fuel costs I suspect it is placing inflationary pressure on the voters (this means your dollar does not buy what it did last week.. usually tied to day to day commodities mmm like fuel). So whats the good news? well it is clear we will not have a fuel problem in the future and our uranium will isolate us from the world "fuel crisis" (words from the era the policy was invoked) so who in or out of power will appeal to the rationale of the economist and the power of a happy voter with less inflationary pressure by adjusting the revenue stream from fuel to a point where tax is taken after production (of the end product or service)... I place it here because I recon astronomers may point out some logic that I have missed. But if you are not happy about the pice of fuel you may now vent your thoughts. but dont buy this "you are being taxed to save the planet" bent on the view either.
alex

[ving (David)]

$1.60/ltr this morning... nuff said!

[mickoking]

If high petrol prices force government and industry hand in hand to look at renewable and clean energy options thats something good out of something painfull.

[xelasnave]

Micko you have been sold a pup..I dont notice any restraint due to the price of fuel. I would go for it if I believed that humans respond the right way but really there is no real effort to diswade consumers. In fact the car, bike and race boat culture sell the opposite.. who leaves a lasting impression the treasurer calling for restraint with a tax grab or the romance of screaming engines. If it is not working lets not pay it lip service in an effort to relive our guilt of consumption and irresponsible pollution. The input of tax at early stages of production is very inflationary in fact can be called counter productive. I dont want Uranium on the table but if you have been following the news it is clear the lobby is on.. The Prime Minister says we need a debate, the Treasurer why not others are doing it (as if that were the only consideration) and the Opposition seemed to be in the process of rolling over on their earlier stand on the issue. So if this is the clean fuel we are getting (its on its way that is clear) my point is we dont have to worry about world price parity anymore so dont take our money. Stand at the tank and fill to $20 for petrol and keep pumping another $20 for tax...Maybe if they were serious a small portion could go to subsidising electric vehicles...oh no we could not do that that is creating an uneven market place.. As you said If the policy worked to force a change it would be great but I doubt its effectiveness as we are geared otherwise.
alex

[seeker372011 (Narayan)]

time to buy that push bike I say

[mickoking]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

Micko you have been sold a pup..I dont notice any restraint due to the price of fuel. I would go for it if I believed that humans respond the right way but really there is no real effort to diswade consumers. In fact the car, bike and race boat culture sell the opposite.. who leaves a lasting impression the treasurer calling for restraint with a tax grab or the romance of screaming engines. If it is not working lets not pay it lip service in an effort to relive our guilt of consumption and irresponsible pollution. The input of tax at early stages of production is very inflationary in fact can be called counter productive. I dont want Uranium on the table but if you have been following the news it is clear the lobby is on.. The Prime Minister says we need a debate, the Treasurer why not others are doing it (as if that were the only consideration) and the Opposition seemed to be in the process of rolling over on their earlier stand on the issue. So if this is the clean fuel we are getting (its on its way that is clear) my point is we dont have to worry about world price parity anymore so dont take our money. Stand at the tank and fill to $20 for petrol and keep pumping another $20 for tax...Maybe if they were serious a small portion could go to subsidising electric vehicles...oh no we could not do that that is creating an uneven market place.. As you said If the policy worked to force a change it would be great but I doubt its effectiveness as we are geared otherwise.
alex

Don't worry I havent been sold anything I very much agree with you

BTW this is my 700th post, party time

[h0ughy (David)]

filled the car this afternoon - 56 dollars for 40 litres at 135.9 with discount

[xelasnave]

You can make your own fuel from used cooking oil but I think you are supposed to pay tax on it also. However a guy tells me that used cooking oil sells for 50 cents a litre so even that road is not cheap as there is additional money needed for a production unit etc. I think a horse is the go and I wont have to mow the lawn again
alex

[astronut (John)]

The only way to have cheaper petrol, is to have the politicans PAY for their own petrol instead of us the bottom less pit called the taxpayer providing it to them for FREE.
It's hard to know how the other 7/8's of the population live unless you walk in their shoes!!!!

[astro_nutt]

Originally Posted by astronut

The only way to have cheaper petrol, is to have the politicans PAY for their own petrol instead of us the bottom less pit called the taxpayer providing it to them for FREE.
It's hard to know how the other 7/8's of the population live unless you walk in their shoes!!!!

If they had to pay...whats the bet they give themselves another pay rise...Grrrr!..

[anthony2302749]

Hi

I thought I would wade into this discussion about petrol, but before I open my mouth I did some research into the topic and came up with some very interesting information some of which I have posted below. It looks that tax on fuel has been around since before Federation. Historically speaking, the excise was imposed to raise revenue for transport infrastructure. In more recent times the excise has become a source of general revenue.

For further reading follow the link http://fueltaxinquiry.treasury.gov.au/content/Submissions/Government/Treasury_326.asp


1.2 History of petroleum product taxation
Prior to Federation customs and excise duties were the main forms of tax revenue available to the Colonies. At Federation section 90 of the Constitution gave exclusive power over customs, excise (and bounties) to the Commonwealth. During the first three decades of Federation all petrol used in Australia was imported and as a result only customs duty was collected on petrol. It wasn't until 1929, when domestic refineries began production, that excise was first levied on petrol.
Up until 1926, customs duty on petrol was used as a general revenue raising tax. In 1922 the Commonwealth started providing grants to the States for a number of purposes including road development. The first specific road funding legislation was introduced in 1923 (the Main Roads Development Act 1923). During the period from 1926 to 1959 there was formal hypothecation of petrol excise and customs duty for Commonwealth roads grants to the States.
In September 1957, due to the increasing use of diesel powered vehicles, excise was first applied to diesel3. The original diesel rate was marginally higher than the petrol rate of that time4. At the same time that excise was applied to diesel, a diesel rebate scheme for off-road users was introduced. As petroleum excise was hypothecated to road funding, the scheme effectively allowed for a full rebate of the excise paid for all off-road use of diesel,5 which remained the case until 1982.
In 1959, the formal hypothecation of petroleum excise to road funding was abandoned. The rationale behind this decision was that the practice of designating the proceeds of a tax for a particular purpose was unsound from a finance policy perspective, primarily as it restricts a Government's budgetary flexibility to direct revenue where it is most needed. Consequently, since 1959 petrol and diesel excise have been imposed as a means of raising general government revenue.
From 1959 to 1982, excise on petroleum products was subject to a number of discretionary increases in response to budgetary needs. This included the Australian Bicentennial Road Development program, initiated in August 1982, in an attempt to increase road funding after wide spread criticism over falling road funding since the late 1970s. As part of the program the revenue collected was paid into the Australian Bicentennial Road Fund which was used to provide grants to the States for road construction.
On 22 August 1983 the Government announced that excise would be subject to twice yearly indexation to increases in the Consumer Price Index. The rationale behind this measure was to maintain the real level of revenue. Rebates for off-road diesel use were not adjusted and remained at 7.055 cents per litre (cpl)6. In conjunction with this, excise was also introduced on fuel oil, heating oil and power and lighting kerosene.
From March 1986 to December 1987, there was a significant increase in excise collections due to the link between the petroleum excise and crude oil levy collections. This included a 3 cpl increase in petrol excise in the August 1986 Budget, to offset reduction in Commonwealth revenue due to the fall in the price of crude oil as a result of the collapse of the OPEC oil cartel. On the removal of import parity pricing in December 1987, the excise on petrol and diesel had increased by around 10 cpl.
Again, from 1988 to August 1993, the increases in excise rates on petroleum products were solely a result of indexation7. In the August 1993 Budget the Government announced it was imposing an immediate 3 cpl increase on the excise on all petroleum products except aviation gasoline and aviation turbine fuel. The Government also announced it would increase excise by 1 cpl on most petroleum products in February and August 1994, in addition to indexation. After negotiations with Senator Harradine and Western Australian Green Senators, the Government agreed that the latter adjustments would only apply to petrol and diesel. In conjunction with this, an additional 1 cpl was levied on leaded petrol in February and August 1994 in order to reduce the use of this fuel, which was the first time excise was used to address environmental externalities.

[acropolite (Phil)]

Another factor in the debacle is that modern day corporations have discovered thet the easiest way to increase profits is by restricting supply. It has happened in many parts of the world including the US, for example Enrons deliberate manipulation of parts of the power supply grid to force the spot market price for power up (they actually turned off supply to some areas). I suspect that the oil companies are involved in exactly the same process at the moment. That still doesn't excuse the obscene level of Tax imposed by the government, doubly so when they impose GST on top of the excise in violation of their own rule that there would be no taxes on top of taxes. Unfortunately that's only the tip of the iceberg, expect the same treatment for water and electricity supply as more of our public utilities are sold to private enterprise by governments with no regard for fair play or the future.

[mickoking]

We don't elect governments to be dictatorships we elect them to do OUR bidding.

[xelasnave]

I represented a Departement in one of our Governments a decade ago (and swore to secrecy) to sell off a pile of real estate you would not believe. This happened in many Departements State and Federal. Many Federal buildings were sold and leased back... there is no happier buyer than one who has purchased from the Government and no happier landlord than one who has the Government as a tenant. And a property so leased represents the most secure and attractive investement in real estate.. For who's good were these deals done? I wonder what a decade of capital appreciation was worth to the sold out taxpayer?
mmm I think staying up 5 nights last week has left me crabby. Anyways I dont depend on them for water or electricity and I have a forrest of fire wood, so I am ahead there.
alex
alex