Stuck on scope choice.

[met0001 (Brad)]

hi guys, i have always been in to astronomy and have finally decided to get my self a scope, which i have found to be tricky.
I have done a lot of reading and have slightly broadened my knowledge.
I have been a avid photographer for meany years and i am keen to bring that interest into astronomy.

I was wondering if you guys can help me out with which scope would suite me best.
Im currently more interested in deep space objects,
My budget, i want to try to stay under the $1800 mark as best as possible.
Size isnt to much of a issue as i can fit 2, 12" dobsonian's in the car and im not to fussed about lugging the weight around as i do that day to day for my job.

i have found out that refractor scopes are ideal for astrophotography but not as good for general viewing?
i have been looking at the
http://www.bintel.com.au/Telescopes/...oductview.aspx

As it has the mount which is much more ideal for astrophotography then a dobsonian mount as i am intended to believe.
it also has goto which is a plus.
Also at later stage i can add a refractor to that mount?
But the issue is it being only a 8" scope, how would that effect general vieing compaired to a 12" dobsonian?

Im also torn between a
http://www.bintel.com.au/Telescopes/...oductview.aspx
Due to its increased light gathering abilities which will help in deep space viewing, but it is possible to get decent images from it considering it does not have goto?
And such features as the smaller 8" scope.

So basically im looking for a scope where i can enjoy viewing of planets and deep space but also get into am amateurastrophotography at some point.
Also i seem to see a lot of http://www.telescopesdirect.com.au/T...ised-Telescope
These type scope but i dont see much talk about them is their any reason why?

Sorry for all the question i do have lots more but i will save them for a later date.

Cheers brad.

[raymo]

Hi Brad,
No one scope is truly able to do what you are wanting. All
scopes are compromises, which is why many of us have a number of them.
Of the three you mention, the 8" Newt on the HEQ5 Pro Go To
is, in my opinion the best compromise.
The 6SE is a little small for deep sky work, and being on an
altazimuth mount, it is of limited use for imaging due to field rotation.
The 12" dob is good for deep sky work[albeit without tracking
ability], but is of very limited use for quality imaging.
The 8" Newt has enough aperture to give pretty good deep sky views, and at f5 is quite fast, so will allow shorter exposures than a
smaller scope. Also, the mount, in experienced hands, is capable of
very accurate tracking, which is essential for quality imaging. Also,
the mount can handle a small guide scope and autoguider if need be.
Incidentally, you ask how useful for imaging one of the scopes
would be, as it does not have" go to". Go to is of no benefit for imaging.
All it does is go to the selected object and then track it well enough
for visual work. It doesn't track anywhere near well enough for serious
imaging. The scope requires guiding during long exposures, either
by the scope operator using the hand controller to operate the motors,
or by an autoguider attached to a small guide scope attached to the
main scope.
Hope this helped.
raymo

[barx1963 (Malcolm)]

Brad
Unfortunately imaging and visual use are to a large extent imcompatible. That said there are ways to combine the 2 in one scope setup, but you will inevitably make compromises.
Of the 3 scopes you have mentioned the fist one is most likely to do the trick...BUT. it will have limitations.
Firstly visual use. Most obsevers these days tend to use dobsonions, simply because with visual use, aperture is the single factor enabling you to see more. Go to a star party and the majority of visual observers are using dobs. An 8" newt on a HEQ5 mount can be used very sccuesfully for visual but the compromise is that you are sacrificing aperture for the convenience of GOTO and tracking. Also you will finf that the eyepiece will end up in all sorts of odd positions that can make observing difficult.
The 12" dob is great for visual, low cost, plenty of aperture, very easy to setup, doesn't need power and can be fitted with ARGO if you are not into starhopping. For a little more a full go and tracking one can be bought also.
The 6SE Nexstar is a competant scope with good tracking and go to BUT the compromise again is sacrificing aperture for tracking. DSOs will be considerably dimmer than in an 12" or even an 8".
Now for Imaging use. Only the first scope is going to give you much. With the 12" dob it is possible to take some short exposure images of the moon and palnets but that is about it. No tracking and no equatorial mount make this completely unsuitable for long exposures. The 6SE also is not equatorially mounts so even though it tracks it will not be useful for long exposures.
The 8" will be possibly OK, and I would prefer to leave it to more knowledgeable imagers to give advice, but I suspect that this scope would be pushing the limits with that mount weight wise. With imaging the mount is usually more important than the scope, good tracking, being able to handle the weight etc determine succes far more than the scope.

If it was me, I would get the 12" and enjoy some visual observing while doing more research and saving $$$ ( you will need a fair amount of those!!) to move into imaging. In the meantime try doing thimgs like startrails or timelapses with existing photography gear to see if it grabs you.

Malcolm

[raymo]

Everything Brad says is spot on, but I would like to say that my
HEQ5Pro Go To with the 8"Newt, guidescope, and autoguider, is
about 1.5 kg under the mount's rated max. and handles the load
quite happily. Just turn the tube in it's rings for best viewing position.
raymo

[Screwdriverone (Chris)]

Hi Brad,

I love my Skywatcher Black Diamond BD200N 8" reflector on the HEQ5Pro. Perfect trade off between visual and Astrophotography. Big enough aperture for visual from my light polluted back yard and decent enough mount to cope with guiding and gathering photos.

Here is what I reckon you do.

1) BD200N on HEQ5 Pro = $1599 at Andrews Comms
2) Orion 50mm miniguide scope from Bintel = $119
3) Philips toucam for guiding/planetary = $60 - $100 here on IceTrade
4) Assuming you have a DSLR, a T-ring to connect the camera to the scope = $35

All up, this will set you back $1599+$119+$60+35 = $1813, assuming you get a $60 toucam from somewhere.

this will get you started and will be a great visual scope with some AP capability. I havent included power as you can probably find a 12V / 1A plug pack somewhere laying around or in a bargain bin at a computer shop, to power the scope. You also may need a USB/serial to control the mount using a PC and PHD to guide with, but this can come later.

In it's basic form, with power, a nice(ish) polar alignment, a DSLR on the T ring, you can capture astrophotos of 30 seconds and stack them together to get going with AP.

I am rapt with this set up and probably won't upgrade for a looooong time yet. Not until I run out of things to image with this one.

Worth considering as a bang for your buck set up.

Cheers

Chris

[raymo]

Hi again Brad,
Having almost the same setup as screwdriverone, I agree
with what he says; but a decent power supply is needed if you want to
power more than just the mount. The mount is power hungry, using
0.5 amp when tracking, and a whopping 2 amps when slewing, so if you want to power a laptop and autoguider as well, and even maybe a dew heater, then you will need a substantial power source.
raymo

[Meru (Michael)]

+2 for Chris's setup, except I used the '80mm awesome guidescope package' and a normal EQ5 with drive motors (modified to accept a ST4 port since I couldn't afford a HEQ5). If I had to sell everything and start from scratch again, the 8" f/5 is where I'd probably go again. Wonderful all round scope! Plus the HEQ5 & 8" reflectors have gone here on IIS very, very cheap if you've got patience unlike me

[met0001 (Brad)]

Awesome guys thank you for all your reply's!

I think i will go for the 8" on the HEQ5 pro as it has goto which will help ease the learning curve. It had good base to starts some camera work on and a nice mount if i want to upgrade to a more astrophotography scope.

Thanks Chris i will be sure to use that as a guide! deffentley helped with what i needed to know for a good setup!

Now my issue is weather to get the scope from Andrews Comms BD200N on HEQ5 Pro

or the f/5 or the f/4 BT200 from bintell, i understand the lower f-stop will gather more light buy i have also read that it will decrease the sharpness and smoothness around the outside of the frame of the image you are looking at.
I understand his can be corrected by a coma corrector? or would i be beater off going with the f/5 keeping in mind it will also be used for general viewing.

Is the any befent to get the Skywatcher over the bintel? i see the skywatcher 90' finder scope and the bintel does not.

As for power supply i have two 105amp hour batteries from work which should suffice!
Cheers Brad.

[Screwdriverone (Chris)]

Hi Brad.

Both the F5 and the F4 scopes will suffer from coma around the edge of a largish APS size DSLR or CCD camera sensor.

My F5 skywatcher certainly does, hence why I use a Baader MPCC on it with the DSLR. When I use the Atik CCD, it's sensor isnt as big, so it doesnt get as much coma (if any).

I would recommend getting an MPCC, if you do, get the "kit" one that comes with some extension tubes, allowing you to adapt it to different cameras and get the spacing right. I had to buy a 42mm spacer set to get it to work with the ATIK whereas the DSLR needed none, the MPCC just screwed onto the T ring.

F4 will allow "slightly" more exposure and brighter images than the F5 for the same length of exposure, however, the coma may be worse. Stick with the F5 in my opinion, it's a great visual/imaging compromise.

Also, I prefer the Skywatcher over the "Bintel" GSO rebranded scopes, but by all accounts the GSO reflectors are as good as the Skywatcher in terms of quality and longevity. Some may even chime in and say they are better!

6 of one, half a dozen of the other, but IMO you can't beat the sexy flecked black paintjob of the Black Diamond Skywatchers. Ooooh baby!

Cheers

Chris

[Screwdriverone (Chris)]

Sorry Brad,

Just re-read your question re which one to buy......

I recommend the Andrews Comms Skywatcher one, they have free freight, should get dispatched quickly and its the same scope as mine, from the same place I bought it.

Of course, if you are impatient, ring Bintel, see if they have both in stock and trundle down to their Melbourne store, compare the two and then pay for the one you want and take it home. Boxes are largeish, so dont fill the car up with the family or you will have to give cab fare to the kids to get home....

Bintel is in Camberwell and they are open Saturdays, where Andrews arent anymore..... and Bintel is 20km from you.

They sell Skywatcher, so ask them if they will match the price, if they don't buy it anyway, coz their service is great.

Geez, even I cant make up my mind, good luck!

Cheers

Chris