I'm new to this website and I can say that I'm most impressed with the level of help and care that you all have.
I had my first account of viewing tonight. My 5yr old son and myself went down to BTOW's tonight to get some idea of what is like to look to the heavens and what a sight. You long termers might sigh but because of the light at the location the only thing we could see was the moon but wow what a view. We looked through a 10" dob and that was cool because after reading the posts on here that is what most people have been recommending to start with so I wanted to try one out.
Now what I'm after is some recommendations for things that make a dob all the much better for. I'm a person who likes a challenge so after some time getting used to the sky I'll want to chase things that are a little harder to come by. I suppose what i'm trying to say is that I want some advice on what equipment I could use now that will stay with me through to becoming more advanced. I have read a few posts that the accessories usually stay while the telescopes will change.
As I wish to stay with a dob for the timebeing can you please advise on some things that you done to upgrade your dob for a more advanced instrument. You could also add anything that has been a benifit as you have changed to different telescopes.
Some things that need clarifying - I would prefer to stay manual, I live in Perth so light is an issue but I live where there is no street lighting and I'm not interested in astrophotos (yet!). On top of the telescope I have maybe $1000 to spend ( and probably much more in the long run by the sounds of it)
When I was young I lived in a remote farm and I was always in awe of the space that surrounds us. I was reminded of this again the other night while fishing on beach in a remote location where I again could see meteors ( one that broke up into three that burned dark red) the milky way and thousands of stars that you never see living in suburbia. It brang back happy memories. I think I saw in my son tonight the same awe of our wonderful life. I think it is something I won't forget and something very special.
Please feel free to advise all will be taken on board! and I hope we will talk more in the future.
Cheers
Simmo
P.S sorry I just had to put in one face for good measure.
Congratulations on you excitement and welcome to the club!
I always suggest that new folks enjoy what they have before lashing out on a lot of gear but when they are ready to buy carefully after trying if possible before you buy.
Having said that, some things that I have found helpful.
An adjustable height chair...it improved my enjoyment and viewing experience a lot
Good collimation tools...there is a recent thread on this topic with sound advice.
A dew heater and or boundary fans...
I like the Telrad zero power finder...the bullseye in the sky is helpful in finding things
Three or four high quality widefield eyepieces...you preferences and budget to decide which brand...
I agree with Scott,
especially about the height adjustable chair.
These can be bought from telescope shop for about $160. (Or you can make one yourself if you are that way inclined, I think there is a project on here about that).
Get yourself a red light head light, so you dont trip over your chair and you dont destroy your night vision.
A good peice of computer software to tell you what is about, is Stellarium. This is a FREE download, and a truly excellent program.
You will need some star charts. Personally I recommend a subscription to Australian Sky and Telescope, they have monthly star charts, and articles on items that are good in the sky each month (well 8 issues a year actually).
I prefer a Red Dot finder to a telrad. A bit easier to use and less complicated, while doing a similar job at less cost. This will get you in the right area of sky first, then use the finder scope to zero in. If your scope does not have a right angle finder, I suggest you will appreicate the investment to upgrade to one.
As Scott said, good collimation makes a big difference, so good collimation tools will be helpful.
If your climatice conditions are like here, Dew Amelioration will greatly extend your viewing time. Read up on this and discuss with experts. Typically, a secondary mirror dew heater, and a (home made or other) dew shield, will be a good start. Also, a lot of scopes come with a primary mirror cooling fan. These are good to get the mirror to ambient quickly, but some people recommend that they are useful to slow dewing also.
Good eyepieces can cost as much or more than your scope.
Although the ones coming with the scope will probably be OK for starters, you will probably like to upgrade at a good widefield eyepiece for most deep sky objects. Personally, my favourite such is a Televue Panoptic 27mm. This may be around $450.
If you want planetary views, higher magnification will be necessary. In this area, my experience has me going back to a Televue Nagler 9mm regularly. Probably around $300.
Now many will say you don't need all this stuff at the start, and that is true.
But you did ask specifically.
And most will say look through the varouis optional extras first and speak to others on their experiences, and this is good advice too.
Again, I am not saying you need all this, but in my experience, these are items I have found that have improved my viewing experience over time. And thats what you asked for.
BTW, if you are getting a collapsible DOB, first recommendation will be a shroud.
Here's what I've found while I've been using my 8" dob with 2 eyepieces (a 25mm and a 10mm) for the last 3 years.
I've needed nothing else except Stellarium and some good charts (Taki's free one is excellent).
But now that 3 years have passed I'm starting to get serious, so here's what's on this years Christmas list
A red dot finder, using the 8x50 is fine for the 'brighter' stuff, but a 'straight thru' is going to be much easier.
A 8mm to 24mm zoom eyepiece (about $70) a cheap way to determine what focal length I feel works best for me and the scope before I spend hundreds on that one (or two) special eyepiece
A 32mm 2" eyepiece, for those DSOs that are just too awesomely big for close ups
A 2x barlow. I don't plan on using this much, but for the kids - getting things as big as they can (jupiter, mars, SATURNs RINGS, etc.) gives the WOW factor (put stickers on the scope too for the kids!!)
REAL Thermal clothing, but I am in Canberra
And last but not least a 12" dob - like I said I'm getting a bit more serious (even moving house to a darker site away from the city!!) and like they say 'size matters!' - but for a first scope the 8" has been perfect.
Hello again and thanks for the warm welcome and replies.
It has been interesting studying your replies and I was humbled by your words of wisdom. I can see that most of the things listed are geared to making your viewing session more comfortable. This was suprising but when I thought about it, it made a lot of sense.
My ideas haved changed a lot since reading your posts and I think the common points that you have listed are not by coincidence. I will be sure to add them to my list. The finders I'm not so sure about which one though and I think I'll use your advice and research them a little more. The ones listed are they easy to use for beginners or do they reqiure some mastering?
Allen where do you find the head torches as I haven't found any online? They would be a good buy as I'm sure if I get a normal one I'll lose it in the dark.
Just downloaded Stellarium so I think I'll go play after posting this reply.
About "Pimping the ride" vaztr I'm all for it too. Pin stripes and chrome dust covers oh yeah! In fact just chrome it all, I'm sure I'll turn heads then. Tell me how the zoom goes as I was toying with this idea too. Does anyone have experience with using one in a dob?
The majority of mass produced scopes are really pretty good in terms of fit and finish. Adding higher quality parts soon puts you in the custom made category and at that point, unless you enjoy doing it, you might as well order an SDM.
You can swap out focuser for a Moonlite or better yet a Feathertouch and trade out the secondary for a curved one. Replace the mirror to a hand crafted gem and rebuild the base but at that point you will have spent several times your original buy price.
The current mass produced scope are pretty good so yes, concentrate on your viewing comfort and ergonimcs...scopes change, owners don't figure out those things that will keep you viewing longer.
The optics that you already have are light years better than those available to scientists of th past....now you just need to use them.
An adjustable height chair...it improved my enjoyment and viewing experience a lot
This, a hundred times!
Short of Sydney skies, very few things limit what you can see through a telescope as much as an uncomfortable viewing position. The ability to relax at the eyepiece and look at things for a prolonged period of time without tiring is worth more than a $1000 eyepiece upgrade, IMHO.
Allen where do you find the head torches as I haven't found any online? They would be a good buy as I'm sure if I get a normal one I'll lose it in the dark.
I got one for $29 from BCF.
It has two settings: a three white LEDs, and a one Red LED.
[Use the RED during observing and the White after to pack up]
My wife got an identical one from Woolworths (supermarket) for $20.
Also a bit of refelctive tape (from Supercheap Autos) to stick on the chair, scope etc., also helps to see them in the dark with the Red light.
Additionally, to assist with comfort, warm clothing REALLY helps (as the clearest nights are often the coldest). Ice in Space Beanie; gloves (fingerless with covering mitten (Camping world); Freezer suit and boots (refer to IIS user GTB_an_Owl).
If you are going to stick with a manual dob then setting circles could be very handy when trying to find the faint fuzzy stuff. For this to be useful you would need to have Stellarium or similar with you to get the Altitude / Azimuth coordinates of an object for your location.
There is little cost besides some time required to scribe your own setting circles onto your base. I have set mine up so that they can be removed if the scope is ever sold and the new owner does not want them. The 0 to 90 deg altitude scale came with the scope.
This scope is a Goto but I have done this to test the accuracy of the Goto system. With a little luck the skies will be clear tonight and I can run a good test.
I think giving my scope a rolling base with locking castors has been one of the best mods made so far. It would be a perfect world if all big dobs were sold with wheels.
Edit: You are probably already aware of this, but to get the setting circles to work well, the scope needs to be set up on level ground with the OTA pointing at True North.
Last edited by Shark Bait; 24-11-2012 at 08:53 AM.
Simmo
Red headlamp torches can be bought at Safeway or Woolies. Just be careful with them as they switch one way for red and the other for white and cna blind your night vision if not careful. I cover mine in red cellophane to reduce that risk. It also dims it a fair bit as they are still fairly bright in red mode and will affect night vision anyway.
Adjustable height chair are a must, especially as you get more experienced and spend more time at the eyepiece.
If using your scope manually, good charts are essential!!! Computer programs are all very well but difficult to use out at the scope with dew, you have to have extension cords which are a tripping hazard, as the batteries do not like the cold and the screens are still quite bright even when dimmed and covered with red stuff.
Good charts will last years and alway be available. A basic chart is here http://www.bintel.com.au/Accessories...oductview.aspx I purchased these to get me started, pretty basic but helps you to learn the night sky. The next step would be Sky Atlas 2000, the Cambridge Sky Atlas or the Cambridge Double Star Atlas (don't be put off by the double star bit, it is actually a really good basic atlas with lots of deep sky objects). Then there is Uranometria 2000. The charts come in 2 volumes and are excellent quality. There is also a Guide volume that has info on all the objects listed.
I can also recommend the Deep Sky Observers Guide, also in 3 Volumes that has some basic charts but gives lots of good "leads" on what to look for and what you can expect to see when you find it.
With Eyepieces, don't jump in too soon! THe wide field EPs that will come with a scope, usually around 25mm are OK to start with. The higher power ones are often hard to use and so you will find yourself sticking to low power most of the time. Premium EPS are definitely worth it but are expensive and you need to be happy with your choices. Try a few out, talk to others then decide. If you MUST buy a premium EP straight off a 24mm Panoptic or 13mm Nagler from Televue are always good choices.
Cheaper zooms are an idea, but the optical quality is only passable. They still cannot beat a good premium fixed EP. The more expensive zooms are better.
Dew protection is a must unless you are very lucky and live where ther is none. Nothing spoils a good night like have to go and get a hairdryer and wait 10 minutes while you remove moisture from finders, EPs and secondaries. I use the Kendrick controllers and have a EP rack on my scope so all the EPS are permanently setup with heaters as well as the finder, secondary and green laser pointer. All that requires 2 controllers but it is definitely worth it.
One other usful thing is a little foldable table for your charts and bits and pieces. When I go away to Star Parties I set it up in a shower tent to help keep the dew off my charts. Also Bintel sell these little things http://www.bintel.com.au/Accessories...oductview.aspx you can clip the on your table to illuminate your charts etc. I think they are still a little bright if using both lights but about right if you only use 1.
Anyways, thats all I can think of for now. Good luck with your choices and happy observing!!
Glad you are loving the scope, and having some time with your son. My three year old loves being out with the scope and her dad, it is great family time for us, and has become a very special part of our lives.
I would recommend Astronomy 2013 Australia, this is available from the Ice in Space shop, and other bookshops. It gives month by month stuff for you to find, star charts, satellite guides for Jupiter and Saturn. It is a great starting point.
PS I never get sick of the moon, the detail in craters, and surface, is nothing short of amazing.
Hi Simmo welcome to IIS
Just empty your wallet out on the front counter of any astro shop haha it never seems to end on what astro toys we can buy to pimp up our scopes lol happy viewing with your son cheers
Wavelandscott I hear what your saying, just enjoy my scope and if I want to upgrade seriously then it might be time to buy something a little more exotic. I will remember this well.
Thanks for the advice on everything else everyone because I think that EVERYONE has given me something that will definately be used straight away. I'm really glad to have talked to you all and it has been very encouraging for me to gain some of your experience.
Thanks Allen and barx1963, I'll go down and check out woolies next time I'm shopping.
Shark Bait I love your idea with the Alt/Az marks on your scope. I think bearings will give me some guidance to where I should be roughly pointing while I'm learning. I even thought while I'm concreting in my new fence that I'll stealthly put in a conc. pad with a north sign on it in the vacant land across from my house!
Barx1963 I'm definately using your trolley idea as I have to navigate some bumpy areas and kerbing getting across the road. The charts and lights are also on my list.
Now for the chair. From what I've seen the chairs don't look to comlpex to make yourself and I'm quite handy at wood/metal working so I might give that one a try myself. I think I'll have a go and see if I can modulate it later by incorporating something with a small table on the side. Kind of like a lecture chair but with the ability to rotate the table away. On the other side maybe a place to hang the charts and storage for the eypieces. I think I'll have to keep it light though. Hmm, I'll keep you all posted on that one!
Aidan the calendar looks definately on the list too. I think it would be great to hang in our kitchen so the rest of the family can enjoy it too. Which reminds me I turned stellarium on for my boys today and got wow's alround. It was great fun for them and me as we zoomed in on different things. My oldest was so impressed he got out the camera and started taking pictures of it.
Thanks again and If there are more ideas then please keep them coming.
Questions -
Do the dew heaters need a mains power source or are they portable and maybe battery operated?
Thanks Jen. Your comments put a big smile on my face!! Probably some store owners are smiling now too.
Kind Regards
simmo
Last edited by simmo; 25-11-2012 at 12:53 AM.
Reason: Got Swan hill mixed up with Swan Valley and said something like good to see a fellow westy online and didn't want to offend.
The Kendrick dew heater controllers run on 12v power, Bintel sell a battery kit that I have and it was really useful. Includes a nice heavy bateery, charger and dual giggi lighter adapter.
I'd second the analogue setting circles. There is a long thread on Cloudy nights about them too. Add three levelling feet and a digital level and its pretty much point and shoot. Maybe a hand held with some astronomy software (I'm still using a Palm iii with Planetarium, but you can do so much better!).
An Adjustable height chair (Make your own if your handy!) Honest comfort wins!
Thanks for the seconding the setting circles Colhut.
I am definitely going to set them on my base and it’s probably going to be sometime this week if I get the time. I'm jumping in and buying tomorrow if things go well. It'll be a 10" skywatcher as the price isn't too bad at the moment over here. Not sure whether it'll be truss, $ vs. comfort?
I like your idea of using the adjustable levellers on the base too. If my stealth pad (or anywhere else) is not quite level these will come in handy. Your reply also prompted me to do a search for setting circles and I came up with this site: -
This is probably pretty close to what you’re explaining I think. With this and Sharkbaits photos I reckon I'll nail it. If anything I just loved the look of the telescope (just scroll to the bottom)! Vaztr, I think this is definitely an example of a custom pimped up scope! Check the matching seat too.
Jen you are a good soul with a great sense of humour I think. I was so embarrassed when I realised I’d called an easty a westy. In the interest of not being warned for offensive behaviour by administrators I thought I’d better change it. Your post count is very impressive too. I'd tried doing the maths but could not contain my laughter.
By the way Colhut good to see a westy online (I can actually use that now!).
I've had such a good time so far and it’s great to know I’m surrounded by such friendly and helpful people.
Keep in touch and the posts and ideas coming
Simmo
Jen you are a good soul with a great sense of humour I think. I was so embarrassed when I realised I’d called an easty a westy. In the interest of not being warned for offensive behaviour by administrators I thought I’d better change it. Your post count is very impressive too. I'd tried doing the maths but could not contain my laughter.
haha it all good simmo u had me confused there for a while I've been called a lot of things but never a westy haha good luck pimping out your scope with a matching chair to boot woohooo we will be looking forward to seeing the pics happy viewing hope to see you around the forums cheers buddy
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Check the matching seat too.
good luck pimping out your scope with a matching chair to boot woohooo we will be looking forward to seeing the pics happy viewing 
