Returning from Belgium with Laser Pointers

[Merlin66 (Ken)]

I use laser pointers for the construction of my spectroscopes.
Some of them are about 30mW (for diffraction measurements of narrow slit gaps)
Knowing I was about to return to Oz, I asked around and checked out all the various previous threads re laser pointers.
I applied to the Victorian Police (Form B709B) for a licence - "Confirmation for the Importation of Weapons" back in June. We were advised late July that this was the incorrect form and that I needed to apply to Australian Customs.
I then completed the Customs form (B710) - Application for permission to import schedule 3 and 13 weapons. I was then asked to supply further details of the lasers, why I wanted to use them and then to provide a Stat. Dec. giving all my details. This took a few weeks.
Unfortunately no reply was received before I left Belgium.
Upon arrival at Tullamarine I declared the lasers and they were held pending resolution. They gave me thirty days to obtain approval.
When I went back to Customs they said as the goods were now in the country it would take longer to process the application!!
The final situation now seems to be:
1. It is illegal to have, own or use laser pointers (greater than1mW) in the State of Victoria.
2. The ONLY way of obtaining approval is to apply for a Chief Commissioner of Police Permit.
3. This is another round of paperwork and costs $167, valid for three years.
I now have to complete this application, receive approval and forward copies to Australian Customs, who, maybe, will approve the importation of my lasers. (I only wish they had told me this at the beginning!! Bearing in mind that I'd be unable to complete the Chief Commissioner Permit application while living outside the country!!!)
The story continues.....
Onwards and Upwards.

[sheeny (Al)]

Ah, the joys of bureacracy!

I hope you get sorted OK, Ken.

Al.

[kustard (Simon)]

Reminiscent of the Vogons...

"...signed in triplicate, sent in, sent back, queried, lost, found, subjected to public inquiry, lost again, and finally buried in soft peat for three months and recycled as firelighters."

Seriously though, it always seems to me that businesses seem to be able to import lasers a lot easier than an individual. Hopefully you get it worked out with as minimal hassle as possible.

[bloodhound31]

So do any or the Australian Telescope shops sell lasers anymore?

[Merlin66 (Ken)]

Yes,
they seem to be available in SA.
http://www.telescopes-astronomy.com....l-supplier.htm
(Don't know how you can "import" into Vic! - You still need the Permit.)

[Barrykgerdes]

Just one of those riduculous prohabition type laws passed by inept governments that stop legitimate use but have no effect on illegal use.

Barry

[AstralTraveller (David)]

Much as I hate to admit it, there was an outbreak of common sense in NSW. They are still illegal but so long as you are a member of an 'approved' astronomical society (a term I don't believe has been defined) there is an exception granted, so long as you are using them for astronomy. The moment you zap a passing chopper they can throw the book at you. Fair enough.

[Ric]

How frustrating Ken

Hope you get it all sorted out soon.

"Much as I hate to admit it, there was an outbreak of common sense in NSW." I must have missed that rare moment David

[mithrandir (Andrew)]

Originally Posted by AstralTraveller

Much as I hate to admit it, there was an outbreak of common sense in NSW. They are still illegal but so long as you are a member of an 'approved' astronomical society (a term I don't believe has been defined) there is an exception granted, so long as you are using them for astronomy. The moment you zap a passing chopper they can throw the book at you. Fair enough.

David, there is a list of approved astronomical associations on the NSW Police web site. ASNSW is on it so I'm happy.

[Zhou (Mick)]

Don't even think about smuggling laser pointers greater than 1 mW into the country, apparently they have equipment to test the power of lasers at some airports. There is a shop near where I live in Dongguan where you can buy 100mW green laser pointers these are powerful enough to melt plastic and even a small amount of reflected/ scattered light from these beasts can perminantly damage your eyesight.

[Stardrifter_WA]

Sorry to hear that you have had so many problems with the importation of lasers Merlin. I have imported lasers greater than 30mW and have had none of the issues that you have described and they were imported under the B709B form, which I have my copy in front of me. When I imported them I was informed that all that was required is the police permit. However, WA police have a dedicated officer who handle all weapon import permits and I was advised, by him, that the B709B form was all that was required.

I don't know about the VIC laws, but lasers in WA are not a banned weapon, but rather a controlled weapon, meaning you have to have a legitimate use under the Act; astronomical use is considered a legitimate use in WA (without having to belong to a club). This may have something to do with it, but I don't know, since I am unfamiliar with the VIC laws.

As for lasers over 1mW being banned; in WA the police have no laws against selling or owning a laser above 1mW (as long as you have a legitimate use), however, under the Health Regulations, lasers over 1mW require WA Health Department approval. This is interesting, since most lasers used for industrial use are above 1mw anyway, and can be purchased over the counter.

Merlin, when I first started down this road, I did have a few initial problems in getting the right information, however, I took the matter up with my local member of parliament and he sorted the actual requirements out for me and put me in touch with the relevant officer within the police department. I then had no problems after that.

So, if you continue to have issues with this, may I suggest getting onto your local representative for assistance, or the Commonwealth Ombudsman, after all, this is their job. They should be able to sort it out. Half the problem is talking to the right person. Customs seem to interpret the laws differently, depending on who you deal with. I know, as I have just had a problem with another importation issue, just this week, with Customs, but that was sorted out in the end. Also, you can contact the Federal Minister for Home Affairs, as this is also their jurisdiction. One of the above should be able to sort the mess out.

Frankly, I have found my local representative to be very good. He even managed to get a street light shaded for me, despite council opposition, in addition to other assistance. They are your elected representatives, so use them. It is amazing how quick things get sorted out when a politician gets involved.

Cheers Peter

[Stardrifter_WA]

Merlin, pm sent.

[Merlin66 (Ken)]

Guys/Gals,
There's no ambiguity with the Victoria regulations. I just wish it was made more clear.
The Police Commissioner's Permit is the aswer.....

[2stroke (Jay)]

They should just put them under a gun license and classification for approval. That should then be enough for purchase, use and importation. We all know why there banned and why they need to be, it just a shame it has stopped anything apart from those who really need to use them for legit purposes.

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by 2stroke

They should just put them under a gun license and classification for approval. That should then be enough for purchase, use and importation. We all know why there banned and why they need to be, it just a shame it has stopped anything apart from those who really need to use them for legit purposes.

There are no good reasons to ban lasers....Just Media hysteria and ignorance. Even after some 50,000 reported events of "tagging" of aircraft there has not been a single safety consequence. I guess that number will eventually climb to an order of magnitude more, still with a null result. Might as well ban pink elephants while you are at it.

That said, lasers that are of the non hand-held variety, and often vastly more
powerful, are oddly, not banned, nor require a weapons permit. Cheesh!

[Stardrifter_WA]

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

There are no good reasons to ban lasers....Just Media hysteria and ignorance. Even after some 50,000 reported events of "tagging" of aircraft there has not been a single safety consequence. I guess that number will eventually climb to an order of magnitude more, still with a null result. Might as well ban pink elephants while you are at it.

That said, lasers that are of the non hand-held variety, and often vastly more
powerful, are oddly, not banned, nor require a weapons permit. Cheesh!

I agree Peter, however, I wonder how many aircraft have had spotlights shone on them? That would be far more dangerous that a laser would ever be. Your a pilot, so has this ever happened? There are very serious consequences for any act that endangers an aircraft and there should be a stronger community education program. But then, that just might give some moron the idea to do just that, such are the foibles of the human mind.

Although licences for large lasers is not required in WA, Health Department approval is, according to the act, as any laser over 1mW requires approval, although it is quite legal to sell lasers over 1mW, go figure. Mind you, as far as I am aware the Health Department doesn't enforce these rules anyway.

Fortunately, common sense prevailed in WA whereas a laser is not a banned weapon but is a controlled weapon instead (caught with one without a valid reason, defined by the Act, results in very stiff penalties). This didn't come about easily and did require some lobbying of politicians, for which I did most adamantly. Fortunately I have a very sympathetic local MHR.

It would have been better, as Jay had mentioned, to have put these under firearm laws, as most lasers above 10mW are weapon sights anyway. Midland Gunmart sell 40mW lasers with weapon attachment rail over the counter.

On your comment on the non hand held (industrial) lasers, perhaps these are general much larger and considerably more expensive with significant power requirements, so not as portable and less concealable,thus less likely to fall in the hands of a moron. Furthermore, they are not available in as great a numbers and are more easily tracked.

Cheers Peter

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by Stardrifter_WA

I agree Peter, however, I wonder how many aircraft have had spotlights shone on them? That would be far more dangerous that a laser would ever be. Your a pilot, so has this ever happened? There are very serious consequences for any act that endangers an aircraft...

Cheers Peter

I've had a laser pointed at me while at work a number of times...is really was a non-event. Hence I am at a loss for why we have such asinine nanny-state regulation.

As for spotlights...no, never flew for the Luftwaffe, and I'd bet London to a brick that not a single German bomber was downed by a bright light.

The flack that followed from the resulting triangulation was however a bit of a worry!

Sadly I really to see the over regulation of Laser (pointer...the plug in variety you can freely import ) ownership as a result of some dopey bureaucrat thinking Dr Evil and Austin-powers "lasers" as being real. ( i.e literally cut military hardware to pieces)

Couple that with some media hysteria, and well, there you have it.

A little bit of critical thought on the issue would have been nice....as I said 50,000 odd reported events and not a single aviation safety consequence.... As opposed to "Jet aborts approach to Sydney airport due laser strike!!"

Some mothers do have 'em.

[Merlin66 (Ken)]

Guys,
Much as I appreciate the discussion, this thread is about importing lasers into Victoria...not WA, not NSW or SA.
The law is as stated....

[Peter Ward]

Originally Posted by Merlin66

Guys,
Much as I appreciate the discussion, this thread is about importing lasers into Victoria...not WA, not NSW or SA.
The law is as stated....

Just buy one from Queensland. Don't tag Polair 1 after you get it through the post, and if you use it for good, not evil, the Victorian swat teams will very likely leave you alone.

[Merlin66 (Ken)]

Peter,
As an Ex-President of the ASV and being a "lead by example" sort of guy, your solution wouldn't work. To be legal in Vic I need the permit.
(I could easily have "hidden" the lasers in the household effects....that's not the way to do it.)