Is the Earth expanding?

[xelasnave]

This probably fits the pseudo science category but I thought (given many of us are confined to quarters because of the rain) it may provide an interesting discussion.

There are a few movies on utube about this but the gutz of the idea is that the current theory of plate tectonics is somewhat flawed.

The view of the folk who support the idea that the Earth is growing in size believe that at one point the Earth was much smaller and that generally the entire surface of the Earth was one land mass and the separation of the continents occurred because the Earth literally grew in size...how I am not sure (but I certainly could come up with my own pseudo science to help them out ..I think they have a view on a reason but I dont know what it is yet) .

The current theory of Plate tectonics differs in so far as on that approach there was one land mass and the Earth was its current size ..over time the continental plates drifted apart to form the continents we have today...and they continue to do so at a measurable rate..only millimeters but measurements are available as all would know.

The models I saw were somewhat compelling but of course they would be in support of their as new idea.

My first reaction was to dismiss the idea that the Earth could be growing in size with little thought butl I recalled once wondering if space is expanding would not matter be expanding also. I have no doubt the idea could be shot down with ease (and I am sure if you are bored you may enjoy the target practice) but any new idea can suffer if it rides against the current accepted views and its infancy shows gaps in the science or logic enlisted. (Just consider how hard it has been for me selling the push Universe concept.)

So what do you think? Could the Earth be expanding in a similar manner to our observations that space is expanding?

Have you encountered this new idea (although they do say its been around for a while and that is probably right as completely original ideas are uncommon) ...

I wont post links but if you are interested material is easy to find. I think I have given a reasonable account of this alternative view in the hope you may rely on and not waste time looking at the movies.


However would it not make sense that if space is expanding that matter also would be expanding and hence there could be some reasonableness in the concept of a growing Earth?...It is clear that there is a direct relationship between matter and energy and little doubt that empty space is jam packed with energy so maybe the idea (right or wrong) is not as fanciful as it may first strike one...


alex

[xelasnave]

Sorry I neglected to mention I found this growing Earth stuff when searching the growing list of conspiracy theories... the growing Earth thing was found in a list of "five top conspiracies".... I love conspiracy theories but in the same way I love Lord of the Rings or similar fiction ..great entertainment value but no reflection upon reality.

My point was really ... is it not interesting how the wildest ideas will get a following and ignore the accumulation of tested science, in this case I would have thought the current tectonic plate theory was beyond doubt.

I was discussing the matter with a friend and without considering the accumulated science he seized upon the idea that if space was expanding that should mean matter was also expanding (sorry my backhanded way of introducing it above) so therefore this new idea must be correct. I tried another tack... well if the expanding Earth idea is correct that lends support to the current expanding universe so it confirms current science rather than set it aside..no no no...the art of cherry picking is wonderful is it not.

He saw the "drag" marks on the floor of the Pacific Ocean as more evidence in support of a growing Earth rather than seeing same as being evidence in support of the current tectonic plate theory.

The proponents of the growing Earth idea also determine that as they are correct that the past 100 years of science can be happily thrown out unburdening us from a century of lies to live in the light of the truth.

Why is it that folk are so happy to believe in stuff that leaves one wanting to bash your head on a brick wall.

AND today I find there is a flat Earth society google it if you want a laugh but I assure you these folk are alive and well.

AND I suppose I should apologize for the way I tried to make my point about folk grasping at nonsense and calling it "new" science... how can they do this when clearly push gravity is the only new science

Thanks for indulging my dummy spit.

alex

[renormalised (Carl)]

Don't you dare bring this up on a forum with me on it!!!!!. This idea has been proposed on a number of occasions in the past and just recently by Don Findlay....and it's the biggest load of rubbish this side of the EU. How Curtin Uni could've allowed Findlay to do a PhD on this rubbish is beyond me. This is just another wacko (who in this case does have a PhD and experience in his field) who has an idea which has been shown the door on a number of occasions, but seems to persist like a bad smell. In actual fact, it's an utterly ridiculous proposition which defies just about every physical law in order for it to work, yet like the EU mob, its proponents conveniently ignore the physics in order to push their ideas. Unfortunately, too many people with no training in the geological sciences get sucked in by this crud and end up believing in it. It's like all pseudoscience, it sounds convincing and very good....until you look under the bonnet, so to speak.

[ballaratdragons (Ken)]

Of course the Earth is expanding. Its mass is growing.

Just look how many millions on tons of space dust and meteorites land on it every day!

How much do we send back out there, never to return? A few tons a year in the form of satellites, space junk etc. That wouldn't decrease Earths mass by much

Sounds like its getting bigger to me

Sorry Alex

[Nortilus (Josh)]

The expanding earth theory is also probably supported by those that believe the earth is 6000 years old...wackos

[snas (Stuart)]

In actual fact, it's an utterly ridiculous proposition which defies just about every physical law in order for it to work, yet like the EU mob, its proponents conveniently ignore the physics in order to push their ideas. Unfortunately, too many people with no training in the geological sciences get sucked in by this crud and end up believing in it. It's like all pseudoscience, it sounds convincing and very good....until you look under the bonnet, so to speak.

Carl, the above could equally apply, word for word, to EU and also to my favourite rubbish, homeopathy.

Stuart

[Grendel (Peter)]

Alex if everything is expanding, how would you measure that expansion, given that your standard unit of measure would be expanding at the same rate?
Grendel

[xelasnave]

Thanks Carl I was starting to think I was being too harsh on them....
I am the odd one out in this town where 2012 is accepted as is planet x by many.
As to alternative medicine you have no idea.
I dont know why I let it get to me I have to nod and say nothing because you cant win and my blood pressure goes up.
But to find that there are folk who still believe the Earth is flat ... I dont know what to say...
alex

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by ballaratdragons

Of course the Earth is expanding. Its mass is growing.

Just look how many millions on tons of space dust and meteorites land on it every day!

How much do we send back out there, never to return? A few tons a year in the form of satellites, space junk etc. That wouldn't decrease Earths mass by much

Sounds like its getting bigger to me

Sorry Alex

Hi Ken

I am prepared to accept stuff lands here from elsewhere but I doubt if that would provide the expansion as suggested by the growing Earth folk.

Please understand I know folk have various views different to mine it is just sometimes I find it upsetting to the point I spit... my best mate as I have said many times is into tarot card reading, and he really believes that it works, I think maybe that is why stuff like flat earthers get to me...

Also I guess it makes me realize that there are probably folk who still dont totally accept the push universe

alex

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by Grendel

Alex if everything is expanding, how would you measure that expansion, given that your standard unit of measure would be expanding at the same rate?
Grendel

You are right we need a bigger tape

alex

[bojan]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

.... and he really believes that it works, I think maybe that is why stuff like flat earthers get to me...

Of course it works, Alex.. especially with some girls I had a lot of success with those cards and black coffee sediment and whathaveyou when (or because?) I was young(er)

[ballaratdragons (Ken)]

Originally Posted by bojan

Of course it works, Alex.. especially with some girls I had a lot of success with those cards and black coffee sediment and whathaveyou when (or because?) I was young(er)

. . . and tea leaves! Don't forget the tea leaves

[bojan]

Originally Posted by ballaratdragons

. . . and tea leaves! Don't forget the tea leaves

Yes, tea leaves.. of course! they were the best

[Barrykgerdes]

If you want to know anything about scientific fact ask senator Bob Brown. His theories will amaze you!

He will tell you everything that wrong is caused by burning coal and because of the extra CO2 we are pumping into the air must be causing the earth to expand because it is getting hotter.

Barry

[xelasnave]

Hi Bojan Hi Ken
I am happy you both understand the relevance of tea leaves...also astrology with the ladies has a power us fellas dont appreciate I have found.

I sat with a very nice girl the other day..who said.."I was thinking about you the other day and how you observe the stars" and then went on to talk about astrology...guess what I did not correct her that it was astronomy I was into and let her tell me why I did this or that related to my "star sign" ..why not, enough of me talking about me how about you talk about me...somehow even though belief in astrology upsets me a great deal I let her go on..we spent a most pleasant afternoon together and she got most of the beers... what do you do..you bet sit back shut up and agree...but apart from a pleasant afternoon how could one live with such a lie and day after day go on biting ones tongue ...

AND the good news today is the crazy lady (also into astrology and the most extreme crap you can imagine) was hitchhiking out to my place ..I passed her on the road and did not pick her up..hope she does not forgive me

I had the x and my daughter in the car and thought it could have been uncomfortable to have them all in the car at once ... I am so happy they dont drag me in like they did a while back and can focus all my attention on developing the push universe they seem so wonderful but give one only pain I have found.

No dogs no ladies no beliefs I really think I have arrived

But is it not funny how folk get a bee in their bonnet and fit everything according to their belief... or... I do now understand the way I can be judgmental is not the best way ...it is perhaps better to live and let live and not let conflicting beliefs not upset you.... after all I am right so why should I be upset if others do not agree

The (my) bridge is now passable so I can get back out home and if crazy lady is there I can come back here..so its all good.

alex

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by Barrykgerdes

If you want to know anything about scientific fact ask senator Bob Brown. His theories will amaze you!

He will tell you everything that wrong is caused by burning coal and because of the extra CO2 we are pumping into the air must be causing the earth to expand because it is getting hotter.

Barry

Barry give these fools another week or so and they will be saying if we had introduced a carbon tax the floods will not have been as bad... but this affirms my point folk enlist whatever to grind their axe.

The Earth is growing movement is only one of many examples of cherry picking info in support of a particular belief.

Some would say that even I have cherry picked to support gravity push but of course they are wrong because I am right

If you can not laugh at yourself and see the same fault you observe and criticize in others I think that is when you have a problem...

alex

[GeoffW1 (Geoff)]

Originally Posted by renormalised

Don't you dare bring this up on a forum with me on it!!!!!. This idea has been proposed on a number of occasions in the past and just recently by Don Findlay....and it's the biggest load of rubbish this side of the EU. How Curtin Uni could've allowed Findlay to do a PhD on this rubbish is beyond me. This is just another wacko (who in this case does have a PhD and experience in his field) who has an idea which has been shown the door on a number of occasions, but seems to persist like a bad smell. In actual fact, it's an utterly ridiculous proposition which defies just about every physical law in order for it to work, yet like the EU mob, its proponents conveniently ignore the physics in order to push their ideas. Unfortunately, too many people with no training in the geological sciences get sucked in by this crud and end up believing in it. It's like all pseudoscience, it sounds convincing and very good....until you look under the bonnet, so to speak.

So..you disagree, is that it?

[AstroJunk (Jonathan)]

Originally Posted by xelasnave

Barry give these fools another week or so and they will be saying if we had introduced a carbon tax the floods will not have been as bad...

It didn't take him nearly that long to come up with a good one:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/in-d...-1225989350682

I think we should post date the tax to the 1800's

[Starman73]

Hello All,

I just happend to do a Geology elective subject when I was at uni some 15yrs ago. Plate Tectonics and the Expanding Earth theory were both discussed. The lecturer that I had stated that if we were to go to any of the other Geology staff and spoke to them about it, we would be promptly told that the theory was garbage but that happens in science. When the majority of academics are pro one idea it is very difficult to introduce a new idea until a number of them can be convinced. This lecturer seemed to have an open mind.

We were taught that one piece of compelling evidence for Expanding earth comes when you look at the amount of areas of sea floor spreading as opposed to areas of subduction. Looking at maps it appears that there are more areas of sea floor spreading then there are of subduction. The question arrises that if more crust is being made then is being destroyed, where does it go?

If you look at the shape of the continents as the broke up and drifted apart, it is easier to put them back together using a smaller sized Earth then to move them and fit them together using the current sized Earth.

Unfortunately, this is all I can remember of the Expanding Earth theory. Geology was after all only an elective, and the subject was entitled something like Environmental Studies. When I saw that I thought it was something to do with looking into the environment on Earth, Greenhouse effect, salination, deforestation and errosion, that kind of thing, not looking at rocks. I did hear the lecturer say that the subject was named as such to pull more people in (the environment was really big back in the mid 90"s too and it worked on me).

I am sure that with out current technology, I am sure we would be able to measure if the Earth was expnading. I know that they are constantly measuring the distance from the Earth to the Moon, I am sure something would show up there for instance.

Anyway, I have put in my 2c worth.

Regards
Paul

[Barrykgerdes]

I have no accademic qualifications in science so I am not constrained by convention. I loved science at school and excelled at it without even attending lectures or doing any study etc. It just seemed so natural.

When it comes to the theories expounded by the current scientific leadership I try to look only at the facts not the results of statistics that can always be fiddled to suit the expounders theories.

When it comes to the question of whether the earth is expanding we have very few facts because we have no conclusive mearsurments only theories and also do we mean expanding or increasing in size.

In regarding expanding we only have theories and statistics so there is no conclusive proof one way or the other.

In regarding increasing in size we do know that there are millions of tons of matter being attracted to the earth by gravity but we only have estimates of how much is arriving. Against this we need to subtract the amount of matter that is being converted into energy that is being radiated or used to heat up our core. Does anyone have this data?

These theories and controversies are what the scientific fraternity expound in order to stir up enough interest for governments to pay their way and of course the old adage comes to the forefront "He who pays the piper calls the tune"

Barry