Some mothers do 'ave 'em....

Peter Ward · #1 16-03-2010, 04:38 PM

I recently spoke to a fellow wanting some Astro software. Seems he was wanting to "check on some historic events".

Like this one: "as it is written in the Book of Jashar. The sun stopped in the middle of the sky and delayed going down about a full day"

I mentioned there was probably some poetic license there, and there would be no software that would in fact account for planet earth spinning to an abrubt halt 'cos the Good book said it did...this was not appreciated...

Converstion ended pretty shortly after that

That said, I mused over the earth's spin coming to an abrupt halt for a day....I 'd suggest even Hollywood would have difficulty in getting the special effects right for that disaster movie...

....but....as I'm curious....just what would happen???

AstralTraveller (David) · #2 16-03-2010, 04:50 PM

Well, if it happened Monday to Friday while I'm at work I'd be furious!! But on weekends or during holidays it would be OK.

Being slightly more serious, what is it that suddenly stops?? Just the Earth's crust; the crust, mantle and core; the crust, mantle, core and oceans; or the crust, mantle, core, oceans and atmosphere. Depending on what magically stops and what keeps moving the disasters would be quite different.

Jeffkop (Jeff) · #3 16-03-2010, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kinetic

It is real and it does happen.
When my mother in law drops in the whole world stops spinning and
it is like all the worst disaster movies rolled into one.

Oh thats precious

lacad01 (Adam) · #4 16-03-2010, 05:29 PM

Would everything not fixed to the ground float up and out or is that just cobblers ??
I just thought about it and it's dumb, please ignore

Peter Ward · #5 16-03-2010, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AstralTraveller

.....

Being slightly more serious, what is it that suddenly stops?? Just the Earth's crust; the crust, mantle and core; the crust, mantle, core and oceans; or the crust, mantle, core, oceans and atmosphere. Depending on what magically stops and what keeps moving the disasters would be quite different.

Good question... I took the literal interpretation, the "earth" bits would have to stop (core, mantle crust). The angular momentum consequences on the oceans, atmosphere...anything that's not bolted down (spin velocity at the equator is around 900 knots)...would be interesting....

Esseth (Alan) · #6 16-03-2010, 05:58 PM

Yeah i watched an episode of "The Universe" that did a bit on this exact issue.

The episode top 10 ways to destroy the earth

to give you some idea of how well it would go for us little humans.

sheeny (Al) · #7 16-03-2010, 06:09 PM

Maybe it was time that stood still for a day at midday...

...maybe it was a calendar adjustment... "today's Monday and so's tomorrow"...

(apologies to Monty Python and the Life of Brian).

Al.

sheeny (Al) · #8 16-03-2010, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

Good question... I took the literal interpretation, the "earth" bits would have to stop (core, mantle crust). The angular momentum consequences on the oceans, atmosphere...anything that's not bolted down (spin velocity at the equator is around 900 knots)...would be interesting....

...not to mention the heating of the sun facing side and cooling of the other side and the resultant winds that would be generated. Whacko weather systems no doubt...

Al.

DavidTrap (David) · #9 16-03-2010, 08:25 PM

Al, I hope you're not trying to turn this into a thread on global warming!!! The moderators will be in her faster than you can say Flash Gordon!

DT

Barrykgerdes · #10 16-03-2010, 08:54 PM

The stories that are around about people trying to tie biblical stories into scientific fact are always amusing. However it is like all controversial subjects, the adherents will never be convinced so it is pointless to argue.

The probable reason is that English as a language has so many similar words describing different things that the wrong meaning is given.

This is exacerbated by the fact that most of ancient languages that the old stories are translated from never had words to describe what we accept as "gospel" and so wrong meanings are given for simple visual accounts.

I always use the story of Cinderella and the glass slipper to show this. The European versions of the story refer to the glace slipper which in fact means fur slipper. A much more comfortable piece of footware.

Barry

ngcles · #11 16-03-2010, 10:42 PM

Hi Peter & All,

Well, it shouldn't be too hard to work out the total angular momentum as we know the mass of the Earth and its rotational velocity.

Haven't done the maths myself (I'm lazy) but instantly converting virtually all that kinetic energy (an extremely big number) into heat (it's gotta go somewhere) I'd think would probably be enough to completely melt the Earth's crust if not the mantle as well -- which might be uncomfortable if you are a carbon-based life-form.

Best,

Les D

astroron (Ron) · #12 16-03-2010, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidTrap

Al, I hope you're not trying to turn this into a thread on global warming!!! The moderators will be in***her****faster than you can say Flash Gordon!

DT

Keep it clean

Starkler (Geoff) · #13 16-03-2010, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lacad01

Would everything not fixed to the ground float up and out or is that just cobblers ??
I just thought about it and it's dumb, please ignore

I remember my uncle trying to tell me if the earth stopped spinning that we would float off. Even as a kid I knew that was rubbish and in fact the spin is working against gravity, not for it.

Waxing_Gibbous (Peter) · #14 16-03-2010, 11:02 PM

I've read several hypothetical papers on what might happen if the Earth suddenly stopped spinning. While there is much disagreement on the specific effects, there is also consensus on the cumulative: we'd be BONED!!!!

Peter Ward · #15 16-03-2010, 11:55 PM

I just need ot be a little careful here...my beef is not with any "theological" aspects of that person's world view.

Simply the physics of what would happen if mother earth suddenly stopped spinning. (BTW.... no, we would not "float off"....gravity will continue to work just fine)...as I said, interesting given the large numbers involved...

The kinetic rotational energy of the earth...about 2.14 x 10^26 Kilowatts per second ? (my math could be dodgy, but we are close) has to go somewhere.... eg melt rocks etc.

supernova1965 (Warren) · #16 17-03-2010, 06:50 AM

There was a movie called CORE where the core of the earth stopped spinning causing the Magnetic Field of the earth to stop with the resulting disaster of electrical storms and then the sun's full power would be unleashed on us if I am not mistaken

with no Magnetic Field.

sheeny (Al) · #17 17-03-2010, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidTrap

Al, I hope you're not trying to turn this into a thread on global warming!!! The moderators will be in her faster than you can say Flash Gordon!

DT

Nope. (Fingers making a crucifix). Staying away from that.

Al.

sheeny (Al) · #18 17-03-2010, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

I just need ot be a little careful here...my beef is not with any "theological" aspects of that person's world view.

Simply the physics of what would happen if mother earth suddenly stopped spinning. (BTW.... no, we would not "float off"....gravity will continue to work just fine)...as I said, interesting given the large numbers involved...

The kinetic rotational energy of the earth...about 2.14 x 10^26 Kilowatts per second ? (my math could be dodgy, but we are close) has to go somewhere.... eg melt rocks etc.

The bit I always struggle with, Peter, in these sorts of questions is the mechanism that causes the effect. To stop the earth spinning there must be something to cause it, and that is probably something far more disasterous than the actual effects of simply not spinning. I think Les D is thinking a similar direction.

However, lets not spoil a good healthy speculative mental exercise with too much logic

.

If the oceans and atmosphere didn't stop with the rest of the earth, well,,, synchronised tsunami's, Batman, was a mess!

If they did, well I reckon the differential heating between the two sides of the earth would have some wild weather. Extremely hot one side, and cold the other and big winds in between. Of course the coriolis component would be missing so cyclones and anti cyclones wouldn't form (I think

). But then imagine the moon is still orbiting the earth...

... tides would still be working.

However, if the moon stopped orbiting as well... oops...

Al.

Barrykgerdes · #19 17-03-2010, 07:42 AM

I seem to rember reading a story many years ago. I think it was called "When Worlds Collide". The essence of this story if I remember right was that Venus spun out of an orbit outside Earth's to its new position.

During its pass by earth it caused Earth to topple through 360 degrees so that the north became the south and then back to north again.

During this topple period if it happened within a few hours the sun would describe a retrograde (or circular) path for quite a few hours, if the Earth kept spinning in the same direction ,before continuing on its way. Thus to a person on earth (assuming he could survive the turmoil) it would appear that the sun stood relatively still for a period of time.

The more I think of it I think the passage from the bible in the first post is what inspired the story.

Barry

OneOfOne (Trevor) · #20 17-03-2010, 08:00 AM

Actually, the current issue of Sky & Tel (US) has an article along a similar vein of worlds colliding. They say that, whilst the orbits of the planets are quite stable at the moment, Mercury has a small possibilty of becoming eratic spinning out of the Sun's orbit....look out if it hits us on the way out. Also Mars could become unstable due to resonances with Jupiter and come hurtling in. They said that even if it missed the Earth, a very near miss would be sufficient to destroy the Earth. We can only predict the positions and orbits of the planets out to thousands of years, after that it is anyones guess due to chaos (butterfly) effects.

If you watch the Aussie version you will probably see this article published as they often repeat the best articles from their US counterpart.