What is a Higgs Bosen anyways?

xelasnave · #1 26-11-2009, 11:05 AM

On the positive negative assumption there may be others who do not understand the importance of the HB and may enjoy the informative replies my question here may generate I post this post which may seem silly but is my way of trying to get a handle on why such huge sums of money are being spent on this small matter which must have huge relevance to confirming the assembly of theories that make up the "cold dark matter standard model" ...

So with respect and anticipartion of interesting input from members I ask what is the HB particle anyways

...

my understanding is limited and perhaps incorrect but my understanding of the HB is that it is a particle (a fundamental particle which I assume means it has no moving parts

I guess) that (said HB) gives other particles mass... and that the HB so far has not been observed whereas all the other particles predicted by the "standard model" have been observed...

Could it be that earlier theory that asserted there were particles with no mass be incorrect?..

It would seem reasonable that "anything" no matter how small would have mass even if humans could not detect it..(via observation as opposed to math determination)
So is the HB absolutely necessary for the standard model to remain valid?
Does the standard model have HB's flying around all over the place through out the entire universe and therefore available to any matter that needs mass?

or does the HB reside within all matter and particles?... and if so how can a fundamental particle gain its mass (being fundamental to me suggests a unity of that particle that would eliminate the opportunity of inclusion of any other particle ..even a HB.

If we are in outter space..say in one of the massive voids ..the realm of nothing... will we have HB's flying around ready to give mass to any particle that may need it...or must HB's be bound always to matter such we must smash stuff to observe one or two disappearing into the distance...and if we set one or two free where will they go?

Could a black hole simply be where many HB's come to rest such that there is a massive concentration of these mass giving particles?
alex

xelasnave · #2 26-11-2009, 11:10 AM

AND could dark matter actually be made up of "free" HB,s in storage available to an expanding universe and the current model of gravity that requires attraction via bodies mass...
alex

FredSnerd (Claude) · #3 26-11-2009, 11:20 AM

He's a mate of mine. His name is actually Bosen Higgs. But you know whenever you fill in forms they get you to state the surname first. Well thats what happened to Bosen. He's a card. I can introduce you to him some time if you like.

AstralTraveller (David) · #4 26-11-2009, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FredSnerd

He's a mate of mine. His name is actually Bosen Higgs. But you know whenever you fill in forms they get you to state the surname first. Well thats what happened to Bosen. He's a card. I can introduce you to him some time if you like.

Apparently there used to be a bloke by the name of Charlie Prince. He had a lot of trouble with forms like that.

FredSnerd (Claude) · #5 26-11-2009, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AstralTraveller

Apparently there used to be a bloke by the name of Charlie Prince. He had a lot of trouble with forms like that.

renormalised (Carl) · #6 26-11-2009, 06:30 PM

I've figured out why people these days are getting fatter...there's been an outbreak of Higgs bosons and they've added mass to everyone

So, no need for hugely expensive and delicate particle accelerators to find the Higgs...just watch everyone's waistlines

Waxing_Gibbous (Peter) · #7 26-11-2009, 08:07 PM

Alex,
You're clearly going to have to go somewhere else to get any sense.

In fact your explanation is as good as anyone has been able to give, but try: www.higgs-boson.com or www.astroengine.com
Honestly you lot.....
PJH

leinad (Dan) · #8 26-11-2009, 08:11 PM

http://www.wonderlandblog.com/wonder...e-higgs-b.html

avandonk · #9 26-11-2009, 08:41 PM

Gravity is the enigmatic force. Only becuse it does not fit in with the fully self consistent Quantum Physics that fully decribes the very small.

It is a piss weak force compared to all the rest.

Yet it controls all star formation and nucleosynthesis that has formed all of us.

The hypothetical Higgs Boson is the so called 'particle' that produces the attractive force of 'gravity'.

If you understand 'the standard model' then you may understand. If not you have no hope!

Bert

Waxing_Gibbous (Peter) · #10 26-11-2009, 08:56 PM

Bos'un Higgs sailed with my Grandfather in WWI. He was drowned in a vat of "Dark Fluid" when a rogue Brane accidently manifested in this dimension.

Sorry Alex.

xelasnave · #11 26-11-2009, 09:09 PM

Of course I know what it is

I just thought others could help others interested in "science" by placing their observations on the matter here in this very thread...not only help others but maybe question their knowledge about exactly what is known in these areas

....and when one thinks of the wonderful discussions that flow from chats relating thereto I thought offerring the opportunity for others to discuss this stuff may be better than a chat about global warming and the proposed taxes and profit seeking such will generate

.

Personally I think the standard model is crap

... folk say I am a dreamer etc with stupid notions but I feel one does not have to look past "super symetry" to get a story of stuff we dont know about but in the absence of common sence can allow speculation upon how things may work with little evidence provided for the concept of particle partners that some really wish were present in our universe er in that other universe where the super partners reside

..

So in an effort to kick off some sort of meaningful or entertaining chat such that I felt many could well enjoy I started this thread

... and lets face it we already have seen folk offer humour as well as other less cheerful emotions coming forward

..hopefully not only to inform but also to entertain

.

alex

xelasnave · #12 26-11-2009, 09:21 PM

Who really understands the standard model such that they can convey its general premise to those they would call "laymen"

.... or is it so wonderful that it will always remain beyond the mere mortals brain

..for goodness sake such a high stance Bert places you in no better position than a priest saying you can only understand the concept of God if you can read Latin or you can only talk to GOd via a human that is really God as well

..and Bert if I did not respect you so much I would not take the time to point out that others may think your tone could be taken as condecending and that you are becoming aflicted with old age crankyness

. So put your teeth back in and hit me with a neat put down reply

.
It is clear however if the HB is out there it can only work via a system I would simply call push as even to this day there is no experiment that establishes "attraction" as a force... discuss

.

alex

xelasnave · #13 26-11-2009, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waxing_Gibbous

Alex,
You're clearly going to have to go somewhere else to get any sense.

In fact your explanation is as good as anyone has been able to give, but try: www.higgs-boson.com or www.astroengine.com
Honestly you lot.....
PJH

Thanks for the link but dont blame any for fooling around..I invited such to keep this a general chat from which folk may learn something about the ellusive HB.
alex

dugnsuz (Doug) · #14 26-11-2009, 10:44 PM

Coming from Edinburgh, I knew a Higg's offspring!

bloodhound31 · #15 26-11-2009, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xelasnave

On the positive negative assumption there may be others who do not understand the importance of the HB and may enjoy the informative replies my question here may generate I post this post which may seem silly but is my way of trying to get a handle on why such huge sums of money are being spent on this small matter which must have huge relevance to confirming the assembly of theories that make up the "cold dark matter standard model" ...

So with respect and anticipartion of interesting input from members I ask what is the HB particle anyways

...

my understanding is limited and perhaps incorrect but my understanding of the HB is that it is a particle (a fundamental particle which I assume means it has no moving parts

I guess) that (said HB) gives other particles mass... and that the HB so far has not been observed whereas all the other particles predicted by the "standard model" have been observed...

Could it be that earlier theory that asserted there were particles with no mass be incorrect?..

It would seem reasonable that "anything" no matter how small would have mass even if humans could not detect it..(via observation as opposed to math determination)
So is the HB absolutely necessary for the standard model to remain valid?
Does the standard model have HB's flying around all over the place through out the entire universe and therefore available to any matter that needs mass?

or does the HB reside within all matter and particles?... and if so how can a fundamental particle gain its mass (being fundamental to me suggests a unity of that particle that would eliminate the opportunity of inclusion of any other particle ..even a HB.

If we are in outter space..say in one of the massive voids ..the realm of nothing... will we have HB's flying around ready to give mass to any particle that may need it...or must HB's be bound always to matter such we must smash stuff to observe one or two disappearing into the distance...and if we set one or two free where will they go?

Could a black hole simply be where many HB's come to rest such that there is a massive concentration of these mass giving particles?
alex

ouch,

my head.

michaellxv (Michael) · #16 26-11-2009, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xelasnave

massive voids

Isn't this an oxymoron. How could a void, being something empty or vacant, be described as massive, something with a lot of mass?

avandonk · #17 26-11-2009, 11:39 PM

I am terribly sorry xelasnave, I only spent the last forty years studying science. All those years of battling with the mathematics did not come easy.

To compare my knowledge with some sky pilot who believes in fairies or a supreme invisible being is a total cop out.

If you take the time to learn what science is about, you will find it is self consistent and open to any test.

The folks who believe in invisible friends are deluded a best and misguided at worst.

Ignorance is no excuse. Please do some basic study of what has already been verified.

Bert

renormalised (Carl) · #18 27-11-2009, 12:16 AM

Standard Model of Particle Physics

Higgs Boson

Nice and simple.....

renormalised (Carl) · #19 27-11-2009, 12:19 AM

Now, for a little bit more complicated

The Higgs Mechanism

Gauge Theories

That should keep you busy

xelasnave · #20 27-11-2009, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaellxv

Isn't this an oxymoron. How could a void, being something empty or vacant, be described as massive, something with a lot of mass?

I think you are correct Michael and your observation offers more support for the benefits of knowing stuff

.

So how can we describe a huge expance of nothing

? mmm I will think about this as clearly this aspect needs addressing

.

Massive is a word in popular use that is perhaps used incorrectly to indicate a large size when as you correctly point out the term must relate to "mass" ... mm yes clearly it finally will depend on the prescence or absence of the HB and their number one would expect before a proper qualification can be arrived at

... nothing is not as simple to explain as a casual initial observation may show

.

Thank you for your valuable input

.

alex