What's an amateur astronomer?

iceman (Mike) · #1 12-12-2004, 07:55 PM

Well here's one.. what's an amateur astronomer? My wife got me pondering with this question, after she read the Venus article in the latest AS&T by Steve Massey.. quoted as "an experienced amateur astronomer".

What's the difference between an amateur astronomer and a stargazer, or someone who just looks through a telescope or binoculars at the sky?

Is an amateur astronomer someone who does astronomy related things like an astronomer, but doesn't get paid for it as a full-time job? Like analysing red-shift, spectrometry, etc etc?

Or is an amateur astronomer anyone who has an interest in the skies above and hunts down objects in their telescopes?

Are there different levels of amateur astronomer? Like, there's the guys like Steve Massey or others who do comet hunting or NEO hunting.. they don't get paid for it (I assume), so they're an amateur astronomer..

And then there's guys like me, who have an interest in astronomy and am continuing to learn more, but really, I'm not much more than a guy who looks through a telescope when the clouds let me

But then sometimes i'm called an amateur astronomer.. or maybe's that just a "wannabe astronomer"

I dunno, I guess it's a bit of a philosophical question, I just wonder if there's a general definition or commonly held belief about what an amateur astronomer is..

I'm interested in your thoughts on the topic.. and look forward to hearing from guys like Dave Reneke to see what the professionals in the biz think about this..

iceman (Mike) · #2 13-12-2004, 05:55 AM

Very interesting, thanks for the indepth response Dave.

As I expected, i'm not an amateur astronomer because i'm not contributing to the science of astronomy.. Sounds like too much time and hard work to be an amateur astronomer

Maybe I can be classified as a teacher of astronomy when I go to the kids school and tell them about the solar system

Dave · #3 13-12-2004, 07:24 AM

Just tell them Amateurs built the Ark - Professionals built the Titanic

Vermin (Tom) · #4 13-12-2004, 10:25 AM

Very interesting, thanks for taking the time to write that Dave.
V.

PS: I finally got around to subscribing to S&S this weekend!

ving (David) · #5 13-12-2004, 12:46 PM

Aaahh! so all this tim i have been a professional astronomer and didnt realise it

maybe I am a professional star gazer... new group!

I am sure there are plenty of unpaid professionals out there!

Dave · #6 13-12-2004, 09:01 PM

Vermin

Thanks for the feedback. Glad to see you subscribed! Why not drop us a line in the letters column or stick in an astro pic if you have one. Good luck.

Mike - you would like teaching astronomy to the kids. If you need some assistance or get stuck then contact me, I have some ideas that might be helpful

beren · #7 13-12-2004, 09:20 PM

Vermin send your Auroa shots in !

Thanks Dave for the great post .

Dave · #8 13-12-2004, 10:09 PM

Thanks Aragon.

Good to have you on side mate! All the best.

iceman (Mike) · #9 14-12-2004, 05:59 AM

Hey so all I have to do is get into that minor planet occultation timings and then I can be an amateur astronomer!

I'd love trying to time those occulatations with a dob with no tracking! It'd be almost as frustrating as my webcam experiences with a non-tracking dob!

Dave, I've already taken my scope to my sons preschool (last week), but found that mostly they were a bit too young to really appreciate it. I'll do it again at my sons primary school next year, where the kids will be a little older and a little wiser, and i'll have an early evening session to show them the planets, which is infinitely more exciting than looking at a white-light sun

Appreciate any tips and advice you have!

Dave47tuc (David) · #10 14-12-2004, 07:51 PM

This is an intersting thread.

Dave i liked your responce.

Someone once asked me if i was a Astronomer, I said No.

Oh you must be a amateur astronomer, I said no.
They were confused

I said I was more like a Astro Traveller.!!
Let me explain.

Now I'm not the most educated person(bad speller

)

I left school very early, but fell on my feet and I have been a printer most of my working life.

I have been interested in Astronomy for a long time. I have observed the night sky regulary since 1982.
I read and still read lots of books and S&S! etc.

Yes I know what a G2 type star is. Or what supernova is and lots more. This however does not make me a Amateur astronomer.

I have met what i call amateur astronomers. Also astronomers.
One astronomer said to me once , they envied me when i look through my telescope. As that person had hardly done so.

I dabbled in Occultation work for the RASNZ, and still do from time to time. VNG's closeure buggerd most of that up.

I also did some Meteor work with a group from the ASV, which sent observation's to the IMO.
All this did not make me a amateur astronomer, as i see it.

So why asto traveller, well people travel many miles and even fly around the world to see things. Say the grand canyon, or great barrier reef, whatever.

:

I on the other hand use my telescope and eyes to travel the universe. I look at galaxy's many millions of light years away. I think that it is amazing that i can even do that.
See canyons, craters and moutains rilles etc on the moon.
Saturns rings, etc.
You get my drift yeh

My observing does not finish with packing the telescope away.
I dream of what i saw for many months and years.
i also keep a catalouge when i can.

I may not contribute to astronomy as such, but i do enjoy it.

So we maybe,"Recreational Sky Observers" or Astrotravellers.
But we do love the night sky as much if not more than anyone.
Clear skies.

Best

iceman (Mike) · #11 14-12-2004, 08:29 PM

Great response Dave, great thoughts indeed and I concur with all of them!

Mick (Michael) · #12 14-12-2004, 09:49 PM

Well said Dave. Some words have lots of meanings.

This is the one I like for amateur.

amateur = A person who engages in an art, science, study, or athletic activity as a pastime rather than as a profession.

I can enjoy the Universe and life I’m happy.

Ps

Quote:

Astro Traveller

Dave are you Dr Who?

rumples riot · #13 14-12-2004, 10:20 PM

I don't agree, I think any definition as to what is and what is not, is by definition fraught with errors. You see language is the way we define things verbally and that is where the problem begins. Let me explain.

First, our language (English) is in fact an amalgamation of many different languages. Part french, part latin, part italian, part spanish, irish, greek etc, etc etc.... You get the picture. In other words it is a bunch of translations which we are not even sure if they are correct despite what the Oxford says. After all the Oxford, which is the dictionary to quote in Court, now has the word Do'h in it. So how reliable can it be if it has an American euphemism in it, which is more like a sound than a word, and what it is meant to have the meaning that the person uttering it is in fact either stupid or expressing exasperation for a stupid action that they have committed.

So how does this fit to together with whether we are in fact amateur Astronomers. Well Dave's definition was partly right. The word is French in origin and it does mean someone who does practices something without monetary reward. But amateur can also mean someone who practices something for the passion of it. They acquire as much information about the subject as possible like an obsession, via reading, practicing experiments and conversing with others in the very same field. Now that is a pretty broad definition. And; that is the result of translation and how it is viewed in context. You see no language is in fact able to translate words with exact definition. Each word has a sense and feel to it, and in this case, the word has more than one sense and feel to it.

So according to both definitions we do indeed qualify, we do research about the topic of astronomy; this very forum is one way in which we research and learn of our interest in astronomy, We do conduct and practice experiments, Mike is a good example, he is trying to perfect his use of a Toucam. We do infact converse with others in the very same field to learn from each other. But, do we in fact contribute to Astronomy as a science? I argue that we do. By doing what we do, we are teaching others and thereby contributing to the science of Astronomy. Now is the contribution one of worthwhile endeavour? That is a subjective quesiton that only you can answer, as for me I think that I qualify as an amateur under my synopsis, you might disagree, but one this is for certain; if we don't then an amateur astronomer is an Oxymoron. Because; it cannot be two things at once and non at all.

Paul

Mick (Michael) · #14 15-12-2004, 10:19 AM

Do'h

iceman (Mike) · #15 15-12-2004, 10:48 AM

Isn't it D'oh, not Do'h?

Mick (Michael) · #16 15-12-2004, 11:42 AM

LOL

ving (David) · #17 15-12-2004, 01:13 PM

Ving: Look, I -- I may not be an explorer, or an adventurer, or a treasure-seeker, or a gunfighter, Mr. O'Connell! But I am proud of what I am!
Rick O'Connell: And what is that?
Ving: I... am a librarian!

pick the movie!

oh yeah, and I am a librarian... I cheered at this scene!

Mick (Michael) · #18 15-12-2004, 02:31 PM

The Mummy. Evelyn.

ving (David) · #19 15-12-2004, 02:52 PM

Oi!! who are you calling evelyn?

iceman (Mike) · #20 16-12-2004, 08:17 AM

As forum administrator and moderator, it's my job to ensure that the reputation of the forums is not inadvertently (or otherwise) tarnished by misleading or incorrect posts.

It's been brought to my attention that the original post by Dave Reneke in this thread, about what defines an amateur astronomer, is actually mostly copied from Tom Williams home page (see http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~trw/define.html) without giving credit to the original source.

It's not for me to judge whether it was an accidental oversight or otherwise, but as an ongoing rule, can everyone please ensure that if you post material from another website please give credit where it is due so that we may avoid any plagiarism claims.

Thanks in advance, and sorry for having to bring down the tone for a brief moment.