Lets do something about light pollution

Paul Haese · #1 14-01-2009, 11:39 AM

In the International Year of Astronomy let's all contact our Premier's and Commonwealth leaders and request that the lights be turned off for 2 hours after sunset in Capital and regional centres for at least 4 separate nights.
You need to illustrate that it is a green initiative, it will help reduce crime (hard to steal and vandalise when you have to carry a torch) and it will show that the government of that area has a committment to the International Year of Astronomy.
Point out that the people of your region will get a kick out of looking at the unhindered night sky and that it will save a lot of carbon from being output.
If enough of us do this maybe we will get some results.
Best of luck.

Paul Haese

koputai (Jason) · #2 14-01-2009, 12:29 PM

I like the idea Paul, but for 2 hours after sunset? The first hour after sunset it's still light anyway, and I'd guess that most of us don't get our scopes out until after 10pm.
Streetlights and lights in and around government buildings would be a small start, then maybe legislation for businesses to turn their lights off, and after that, legislation (with penalty of hanging from the harbour bridge by the nuts) for private residences with too much lighting. I find it amazing when walking/riding/driving around at night just how many houses have incredible amounts of superfluous lighting. There's a new development at St Ives in which every post along the considerable front fence has about 200w of lighting on top! Amazing in this day and age.

What we need is a well worded and illustrated leaflet that we can all print out and letterbox drop in our neighbourhoods. Anyone have one we can start with?

Cheers,
Jason.

leon · #3 14-01-2009, 01:33 PM

Although I agree with Paul and Jason, I think Jason is more on the money, after Sun Set is only a green concept to energy saving and rightly so, but it has no value at all to astronomers, and/or imagers.

Why could they not be set on auto, (all street lights that is) and half switch off after midnight, how simple is that,

we don't need all those lights burning during the night when most are in bed,

except us of coarse.

Leon

Paul Haese · #4 14-01-2009, 06:14 PM

Guys you are missing the point here. This is not about our needs but about introducing others to the concept of viewing the night sky. That is the task of all astronomy buffs in this year. Initially it would have to be for just after sunset, so that the average punter can be bothered going outside and looking. We will achieve nothing if we ask for 12am-3am. That only benefits a minority of people. We have to help everyone to see that we are all being robbed of the night sky.

Think of the bigger picture. Governments need to be seen as doing something for the International Year of Astronomy, this will be visible to all people not just to us. Small steps for education.

In Clayton all the street lights are turned off except for 5 which are on major intersections. They have been turned off for 15 years or more. The equipment is in place but the township wanted only the minimum. When you buy property there, you sign a contract which states that it is a dark sky town. It took years of education to get this to happen. Small steps.

Dog Star (Phil) · #5 14-01-2009, 09:13 PM

Agree strongly with the leaflet idea!!

I'm hoping to introduce as many people as I can to the delights of the celestial sphere myself this year. (I've already notched up 7 so far) but hope to expand considerably on this.
I will probably be going about this in a fairly amateurish way and more than likely pretty much on my own. (Haven't been able to track down other stargazers in the Alice Springs area, YET)

It has occurred to me however that once I've got a captive audience, it would be nice to be able to give people some information regarding the negative aspects of light pollution and various innocuous ways to reduce it, though not in a "preachy" way.
A leaflet would be a great way to do this .
Sadly, I've not noticed anything of this sort being available on the IYA web sites. (Or am I missing it?)

I'd already decided to write one myself so I would have something on hand to give to people looking through my scope, but to be brutally honest, I'm finding it difficult to come up with anything informative and coherent.

Aren't we missing a golden opportunity here?

We want to show people the joys and relevance of the stars above them and yet, it seems to me that we are not using this golden opportunity to inform them about the greatest enemy that the celestial wonders have -
Bloody light pollution!

If anyone has any ideas or links that they would care to send me, I would be most grateful.
If not, can someone more skilled come up with something on the subject that could be printed out.
PLEASE!

mdgodf (Mark) · #6 15-01-2009, 08:27 AM

This site might help
http://www.darksky.org/mc/page.do

bojan · #7 15-01-2009, 12:00 PM

Perhaps we can do something as community on IIS?
There are 5000+ members of this forum, significant number.
Single letter with that amount of people behind is better than less than 5000 letters (some will not send it) signed by (apparently) individuals who do not communicate with each other (you know that story about "Divide et regna" principle :-) ).

The stress must be also on money, not only on green issues (and how those two interact.. like: less LP -> lower power bill -> less CO2 in atmosphere etc).. because it is the money language any government understands the best, unfortunately...

BTW, where is that dark town Clayton, Paul? I want to move there :-)

Benno85 (Ben) · #8 15-01-2009, 02:26 PM

I also agree with the leaflet idea, and further agree that it needs to be presented in a way that promotes a reduction in carbon emissions. As this seems to be the most talked about topic when it comes to environmental issues, we've already won half the battle. The number of people who are "greenwashed" by the idea that CO2 gas is the only major problem is astounding, and it's through this that a campaign could easily be tweaked to suit the astronomical community.

Perhaps we could look at ways in which our daily 9-5 jobs could spread the word about campaigning towards a reduction in streetlights and a curfew on business lighting. Even a simple line in our email signatures could just make enough of a difference, or having a small notice published in various publications (something that I am willing to tackle due to some contacts I have in printing and publishing).

kinetic (Steve) · #9 15-01-2009, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bojan

Perhaps we can do something as community on IIS?
There are 5000+ members of this forum, significant number.

BTW, where is that dark town Clayton, Paul? I want to move there :-)

Hi Bojan, Paul, all,

looks like the population of Clayton is going to go up by 5000 soon

I go sailing down there Bojan, although as part of the lower lakes
network it's looking pretty sick at the moment.

What a great idea Paul,(the council enactment), and put in place long ago,
for all the right reasons.
Just when we thought, as astronomers, our dark skies might soon
be something our grandchildren only read about, it could all turn
180 degrees with the environment on everyone's minds, including
business. Here's hoping.....

I've seen my skies here south of Adelaide diminish in 15 years from
quite reasonable to outright shocking....and I'm in a very outlying
suburb.

I've also been involved, quite indirectly and reluctantly, in seeing
some quite shocking installations of upward facing floodlighting
on high rise buildings here in Adelaide.
A typical example....18x 275w floodlights on the top of a 12 storey
building, all facing skyward, turn off on a timeclock at 4am.....yes
quite funny eh?

regards,
Steve B.

TrevorW · #10 15-01-2009, 06:36 PM

Every member of this an every other astronomy forum drop the PM an email or letter or the Federal MP for Energy, maybe thye'd get the message about light pollution if inundated with mail.

I've been writing to pollies for years about LP and energy savings etc and got nowhere.

Dog Star (Phil) · #11 15-01-2009, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdgodf

This site might help
http://www.darksky.org/mc/page.do

Mark,
My deepest thanks and appreciation for that link, just what I needed.

Should be able to come up with something readable and informative now.
(Jeez, didn't even know that they existed

)
Whilst I intend to "play the green card" in my leaflet, I'm hoping to give it a slightly more astronomy slant.
I'll never forget the horror and outrage I felt when I first read that many people in Europe can NO LONGER SEE THE MILKY WAY!
(If I lived there I'd be looking for someone to sue!)

My plan is to spend an hour or so showing people the delicate beauty above their heads and then explain how that very beauty is being throttled to death and then hand them a leaflet. Not preachy, just chillingly informative.
Again, thanks for the link. I've no excuse now to not come up with something of quality.

Hagar (Doug) · #12 15-01-2009, 11:31 PM

I agree with all the sentiments expressed here but also feel there would be some outcry based on public safety grounds. Another approach which could be taken and may be more acceptable to the general populus would be to shutdown un needed lighting say after midnight when the general public or at least the vast majority would be in bed and asleep. It may not make a dark world but would encompass at least a move in the right direction. After some time and acceptance the times could be varried to encompass longer dark periods.

Alchemy (Clive) · #13 16-01-2009, 06:36 AM

Best of luck to you. All the councils would have to agree AND all the residents

after lots of gentle prodding to my neighbour whilst he was building... including me supplying all power so he could build, and having discussed my personal like for dark at night, he installed 8 floodlights and numerous wall lights plus some under eaves downlights. After the floodlights pointing in my direction for 2 nights (all night ) in a row i approached and was told i was rude. ........... i havent spoken to them since and have planted 60 cypress trees to block them out, it will take 5-10 years before i get satisfaction.

so if i cant influence just one neighbour, again best of luck to you.

bojan · #14 16-01-2009, 10:24 AM

Perhaps we should establish a new political party, with slogan: "Our future is in dark" :-)

No seriously, I believe the most effective way to do something about it is through organizations only.
Individual approach will not work.. too many inconsiderate neighbors around..

astroron (Ron) · #15 17-01-2009, 05:46 PM

According to this article there is another detrimental effect of light pollution.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7821298.stm

Davekyn (David) · #16 18-01-2009, 01:51 PM

Unfortunately I have to agree than there seems to be more and more inconsiderate neighbours around. I rent and have done so for years. There is a lot to be said for the humble approach and willingness to be tolerant of those whom would otherwise press your buttons.
Offcourse the areas in which you live, may give rise to the arrogance or tolerance of others...I was once a rather arrogant fellow, but somehow over the years, lengthened my fuse and learnt that diplomacy does work out in the end, if not for my own sanity.
I have one set of neighbours; I now talk to over the fence, after requesting if they would consider turning their lights off & explaining my reasons & passion for astronomy. It was a little tense at first, but they now respect me as I do them. Unfortunately on the other side of the fence...MMMM...let’s just say they take great pleasure (or simply just oblivious to light pollution and its effect & the worst timing in the world!) in waiting until I have completely set-up & then go “FLICK” LOL...I really have to laugh as it’s taken me a great deal of effort not to react...now when they go flick and look through the window at me, I simply put up all my home made Blinkers...one or two on the fence to block the incoming flood lights...a light shield on the scope itself...and a hood over my head and eye piece. Over times you will get those sensor flood lights going off as well. I find keeping my dog inside & making friends with the dog next door helpful in this regard J At least animals have the ability to show more respect!
Normally I would approach a neighbour to explain my predicament about light pollution...however there are just some neighbours that to do so would in some way worsen the situation. Just be as patient as you can be, don’t be reactive, but Pro-active. To this point I have learnt as much as I can to decrease the effect of such arrogance or plain ignorance by utilising the many techniques available for light pollution. Next year I hope to obtain a 16” Dob and perhaps even work towards enticing the neighbours kids to have a look despite the tension...
Just don’t react...keep the door open and be an ambassador for astronomy...easier said than done, given some neighbours...They will soon get sick of not getting a reaction J

bones · #17 18-01-2009, 10:17 PM

I vaguely recall a few weeks back hearing on the ABC newsradio of a town in Europe (Germany???) I think, where the street lights at night are turned off and if someone wants to go for a walk or something at night then to overcome safety problems they can activate the streetlights for the streets they want to use for a period of say 20mins by using their mobile phone and pressing certain codes into the electricity grid to activate. I thought it sounded like a great idea. After all how many people go for walks late at night? Sorry I can't recall anymore of the details but obviously the technology exists.

bones · #18 19-01-2009, 08:19 PM

I found a link on it. I heard it on Newsradio but it came from a BBC link.
BBC NEWS | Technology | Villagers text to light the way
January 1 at 2:51 am - news.bbc.co.uk - Link

Doerentrup in Germany are pioneering a method of saving energy and reducing carbon emissions by switching off street lights at night. Lights are then activated via mobile phone by dialing a dedicated number and inputting the individual code for each light. Slightly clunky...but still progress. - James Box

DENMONKEY (Brett) · #19 20-01-2009, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Davekyn

Unfortunately I have to agree than there seems to be more and more inconsiderate neighbours around.

Hmm I picked up my first 'real' scope but last night and was out in th ebakc yard taking it for it's first night time voyage.

After only about an hour I have dislike for bloody sensor lights.
If living next door to a motel wasn't enough the neighbours 1 and 2 down seem to like their back yards lit like christmas tree even though they're inside watching tv.

Thing is they saw me setting up in the late afternoon and even made comments about waiting for dark skies (well as good as it gets here).

I've already got a great understanding that these sort of lights must be te bane of the backyard astronomer

Davekyn (David) · #20 20-01-2009, 11:24 PM

Sorry to hear Brett,
What is the fencing like around your place? Could you easily weave some flatened cardboard boxes atop of the fence to block some of the light? It can be a very efective means to minimise the effect. I drilled in some for-sale signs once, making sure the writting was facing into thier yard, and purposely left it up to make an issue... Sure enough, they came over to complain of the eye sore, where upon I took the oportunity to introduce myself and begin a new relationship built on respect

...LOL... Does not always work...BUT...where there is a will there is a way. Honestly, if all else fails..find the biggest sombero hat you can find and stargaze under that

What kind of scope was it? I always use light pollution as an exscuse to go bigger.
Have fun anyways!
Dave