Run your car with salt water.

[White Rabbit]

Run your car with salt water,this is pretty big if it's legit.

http://www.livescience.com/environme...alt_water.html

Heres a vid
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kKtKSEQBeI

This solves the most dangerous part of the hydrogen can, carrying hydrogen around with you.

[Mick (Michael)]

Wonder how much power it takes to run a radio-frequency generator. Maybe it burns up more energy than it will produce.

[janoskiss (Steve H)]

Originally Posted by Mick

Wonder how much power it takes to run a radio-frequency generator. Maybe it burns up more energy than it will produce.

That's a given. Burning the hydrogen just re releases the energy it took to break the bonds in the first place. No free lunch.

[ballaratdragons (Ken)]

That would truly be remarkable, if it isn't suppressed as other fuel alternatives have been.

Drive down to the beach . . . and fill 'er up!

Bit far for us inland folk

But if he can keep the research advances public knowledge (and he can get it to work as a fuel alternative) they won't be able to suppress it, and we may see it used in the near future. I am using Sugar Cane petrol at the moment to help the environment, so I'd be happy to not use petrol at all.

[avandonk]

Reminds me of the old science fiction story where a neophyte puts together a bunch of electronics and gets out more power than goes in. The worlds energy problems are solved. Peace breaks out everywhere.
Then the aliens turn up and are greeted by the world leaders with all sorts of glib speeches.

And the aliens say 'we don't know about all that stuff you were saying, we are just here to deliver your energy bill!'

Yep there is no free lunch!

Generally these scams always quote technologies incomprehensible to ordinary folks to make them sound legitimate. Sorry

Bert

[joe_smith]

Bert, what makes you think its a scam? I cant find any info on it to say it is a hoax. Even if its true it wont go anywhere the big payers in the fuel industry will see it gets shelfed, as usual.

[avandonk]

What part of the second law of thermodynamics do these scamsters or their marks not understand?

Just google 'second law of thermodynamics' saves me giving a lengthy lecture!

Bert

[ngcles]

The laws of Thermodynamics (summarised) for the lay-person

1st Law: You can't win.
2nd Law: You can't break even.
3rd Law: You can't leave the game.

Les D

[Glenhuon (Bill)]

Ooops, misread the heading, thought it said ruin your car with salt water. Was thinkin I already knew that, after driving on (salted) UK winter roads for about 15 years.

[joe_smith]

Originally Posted by avandonk

What part of the second law of thermodynamics do these scamsters or their marks not understand?

Just google 'second law of thermodynamics' saves me giving a lengthy lecture!

Bert

So are you saying the second law of thermodynamics means you cant extract hydrogen from salt water and burn it I don't get what you mean.

[[1ponders] (Paul)]

In a perfect world you would need exactly the same amount of energy to split the hydrogen and oxygen from water as you would get burning it. ie no energy gain. Unfortunately it is not a perfect world and you inevitabley need more energy to split the hydrogen and oxygen apart than you get burning it.

[joe_smith]

Ok, now I'm with you (I think) you are saying its no good as an alt power source. But radio frequencies can separate the hydrogen from salt water and it dose burn, so if you can lower the energy needed to convert it, it would be OK. I thought you meant the guy that did it was lying and it couldn't be done with radio frequencies.

[[1ponders] (Paul)]

Maybe it can be done with radio frequencies, but according to the LOT it doesn't matter how it is done, you will still need the same amount of energy to split it as you get when you recombine them.

I don't know the science behind it, but I'm assuming that in this process the molecular bond is weakend enough that a hydrogen atom/ion could be replace by a Sodium ion/atom to produce Sodium Hydroxide,..... but the Chlorine atom that is left over from the Sodium Chloride (salt) atom would then immediately bond with the hydrogen atom/ion released creating hydrogen chloride (hydrochloric Acid) (releasing energy) which would immediately react with the Sodium Hydroxide (releasing more energy) to produce water and salt. The same amount of energy put into the system in the first place. There is no free lunch!!!

Even if the hydrogen didn't bond with the chlorine then you would have toxic chlorine vapours being given off at the same time as the hydrogen gas. You would have to seperate these two gases very quickly because Chlorine is an explosive oxidator, same as oxygen. Otherwise the chlorine gas and hydrogen gas would mix and if enough heat was present......booom! Back to square one Hydrogen Chloride Gas, which would react with the surface of the water which would now contain Sodium Hydroxide.....Not free lunch!!!!!

[xelasnave]

Talk is cheap if it works drive over and show me..
Electricity will seperate the H and the O but the electricity is not free..
I have no doubt that fuel could be obtained but the energy to get the H and O wont be free.
Now even if we had a large plant in central Australia using solar panels to produce electricity the set up would not be free..
There was a guy on the North Coast getting folk to invest in a similar thing but I have not seen him driving around Lismore in a car powered by his invention... no doubt it failed because of lack of investment
alex

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by ngcles

The laws of Thermodynamics (summarised) for the lay-person

1st Law: You can't win.
2nd Law: You can't break even.
3rd Law: You can't leave the game.

Les D

These laws apply to any Casino
alex