Portable Beginner Scope

[mr2ns]

Hi All

My wife recently went to the Perth Observatory and loved it. I want to get her a beginner scope that fits the following criteria:

• Price Range $100 to $400 - $300 would be ideal
• Portable for camping trips
• Easy to use
• A quality scope that can see all the big things and see SOME hard to see things

I did some research and found the following recommended beginner scopes:

One

Two

Three

Four

While I do prefer four, (mainly for the Equatorial stand and its positive reviews) I cant find anyone in Aus who sells it. However number 3 appears to be a better scope and looks more portable as it is a table top.

How does number 3 compare to 1 and 2 (obviously in size)?
Can someone recommend me another scope not in the list?
Would scope 3 meet all my criteria?

[barx1963 (Malcolm)]

Hi mr2ns! (Sorry yoy didn't include your correct name so have to use the label!)
My advice is stay away from equatorially mounted scopes as a beginner. They add levels of complexity that you just don't need.
The 2 six inch dobs will certainly fit the bill, either model are perfectly OK from what I have seen. I am always happy to recommend Bintel but shipping costs to Perth can get expensive so may be worth exploring local options.
One thing to consider is that an 8" dob is not much bigger than a 6", and has much more light grasp. Simply put, you see more as the scope gets bigger.
I took my 8" away with me several times with no issues in a small car. Wagon or hatch makes it easier but I have seen much larger scopes in small sedans.

Malcolm

[brian nordstrom (As avatar)]

Good advice Malcolm , mine is the same so flag the eq mounted scope for now it will only frustrate you .

Welcome to IIS mr2ns , I am in Perth also and there are a few suppliers here if you google them you will find them .
I was in the National Geographic shop in Rocky yesterday and there was one that I think fits your bill perfectly , its the SW ( sky watcher) 130 mm collapsable Dobsonion , these get great reviews everywhere because of the quality optics and extras bundled into the scope , a couple of good eyepieces , charts , a planesphere etc.
Only $270 and they collapse down for transport to about 350mm high by 300 wide , perfect for what you need for camping , give these a look , only 20mm less aperture but a much smaller package than the 6 inch dobs ( by the way these 2 are great scopes as well but a lot BULKIER ! ) .

My 5c.

Brian.

[creeksky (Pete)]

Both good advice from Malcolm and Brian,
If there is just the two of you or you have a boot go for the 8 inch dob, (you can read my learning curve as a newbie thread here.

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...=130205&page=5

The extra appenture is worth it, even second hand most people care for their gear.
So you could pick up an 8 inch dob for $300 or less.
While very portable the skywatcher 130 p just needs that extra for better viewing, you just have to learn where to look.
Am so glad I listened,rather than wish later I had got that bit more larger versus cheaper less light gathering more portable.
Welcome to IIS.

[mr2ns]

Thanks for the replies. Nice write up CreekSky.

I have been won over with the 8 inch Dobsonian. I will take a look at the National Geographic shop and see what sort of size I am looking at. For camping we have a 4x4 but also a dog which would take up half the rear seats and my gear in most of the boot. So will need to check it firstly.

Looking at Nat Geographic I see this:
http://shop.australiangeographic.com...telescope.html

But what is the difference between this:
http://www.astronomyalive.com.au/adv...pe-system.html

[barx1963 (Malcolm)]

Saxon and Skywatcher are both made by the same company, Synta in China, they also do Celestron andsell other other brand names in other countries. Saxon is the less expensive part of their range. Having said that both are OK and well made.

Malcolm

[brian nordstrom (As avatar)]

Yes both the same , but the Saxon comes with 2 eyepieces a 25mm and 10mm , but as you are in Perth like me there would be shipping , so what you save on that would get you probably get 2 GSO Super View's from Andrews , the 15mm and 30mm to go with the 25mm Plossl ( great eyepiece by the way ) the National Geographic scope comes with , also the Rocky store has one set up if you want to see one in the flesh , have it in your possession the same day as well even tho the ad says 'Out of stock' .
Great choice either way and let us know what you decide , you wont be disappointed .
Also you can bring it along to our next dark sky night in a few weeks .

Brian.

Originally Posted by mr2ns

Thanks for the replies. Nice write up CreekSky.

I have been won over with the 8 inch Dobsonian. I will take a look at the National Geographic shop and see what sort of size I am looking at. For camping we have a 4x4 but also a dog which would take up half the rear seats and my gear in most of the boot. So will need to check it firstly.

Looking at Nat Geographic I see this:
http://shop.australiangeographic.com...telescope.html

But what is the difference between this:
http://www.astronomyalive.com.au/adv...pe-system.html

[sil (Steve)]

Orion StarBlast 6 would be my choice. I have a similar smaller Orion and its the scope i have my eye too most often. Very easy to use and the included eyepieces are pretty good, though i found the scope improved nicely with my baader hyperion eyepieces (zoom EP doesnt focus in it though). The one criteria beginners ignore is "A scope that won't turn me away from astronomy" which some of your others choices might. My orion tabletop dob is so easy and a pleasure to use even though i have better scopes they are a pain to set up and adjust before you can even think of looking at anything. but even when i had the good gear set up for imaging i would have the tabletop dob to just look around and enjoy the sky with. so even if you upgrade the Orion StarBlast 6 i doubt will gather dust, you'll still get use out of it.

[mr2ns]

Thanks for the replies. Interesting post..

Anyone else with a Orion Starblast that can provide a review?

[inertia8 (Australia)]

I haven't got a StarBlast 6 but did consider it briefly. I do have the Sky Watcher 130P you linked early as well as a Bintel/GSO 8" Dob on loan from the Astronomical Society of Victoria, very similar to the Skywatcher 8" you're considering.

The SW130P is a fine little scope and perfect for taking away camping, which was one of the main reasons I snapped one up on Ebay at christmas time, even though my plan has all along been a 10" dob.

To use it on a table, the table needs to be very solid, any tiny vibration from leaning against the table, adjusting focus etc and the image will be shaky, worse at higher magnifications. This also happens with the 8" dob, however the larger scope settles faster. Placing the SW130p on the ground improves this a lot but requires you to either sit on the ground or use a camping stool or other similar low platform. You will need to move the dob around the table depending on what you're observing and sometimes move the table itself if there is something obstructing your view.

The SW130 definately needs a shroud to keep our other light from entering the tube and to keep fingers off the secondary mirror as I've discovered to my dismay!

One negative of the SW130 is the focuser, it's a fairly crude large plastic screw, it gets the job done but there's no brass compression rings to stop the grub screws scratching your eyepiece barrels and it cannot compare to the excellent crayford focussers with 10:1 focus wheels for fine-tuning on the larger dobsonians.

That said, i'm keeping mine, I got it for about $150 used and takes up very little space and cools down fast, perfect for camping.

As a first scope, I think the 8" dob that I'm using is perfect, it's reasonably easy to move around and with a good seat allows hours of comfortable viewing.

Don't let included eyepieces sway your decision in any way shape or form... As stated above from Andrews, you can get for a reasonable price eyepieces that will outshine any included EP.

In my experience as an eyeglass wearer, you will require EP's with at a minimum 15mm, preferably 17-20mm, of eye relief. Otherwise you will be pushing your eyeglass lenses up against the eye cups and causing the image to shake with each contact. I often look without the eyeglasses on, however I see more detail with them on and there's no chance of smudging the EP lenses with eyelash oil .

Hope this helps.

[creeksky (Pete)]

Originally Posted by mr2ns

Thanks for the replies. Nice write up CreekSky.

I have been won over with the 8 inch Dobsonian. I will take a look at the National Geographic shop and see what sort of size I am looking at. For camping we have a 4x4 but also a dog which would take up half the rear seats and my gear in most of the boot. So will need to check it firstly.

Looking at Nat Geographic I see this:
http://shop.australiangeographic.com...telescope.html

But what is the difference between this:
http://www.astronomyalive.com.au/adv...pe-system.html

With an 8 inch and probably even the 6 inch, seems like you will have to lay it infront of the back seat on the floor (you could pack bedding etc around it) the dob base would take up the seat next to the dog, you could pack some things inside it (about a foot wide and 2 feet high.)in my small 4wd(pajero io) the OTA? 8 inch Scope part took up the whole back seat with cushions either end, the dob base took up the front passenger seat.

[sil (Steve)]

Originally Posted by inertia8

To use it on a table, the table needs to be very solid, any tiny vibration from leaning against the table, adjusting focus etc and the image will be shaky, worse at higher magnifications.

you get the same with any budget scope too, even a breeze can cause it. i use my tabletop dob on a cardboard box, its not a scope that needs alignment, the red dot finder works perfectly and it teaches you patience and control to handle a scope with a light touch (not that any beginner will understand until they find out too late). its SO much easier to learn how to star hop and find your way around the sky with it too. Any EQ mount will drive you nuts. Some of the tabletop dobs also have a thread under them to allow you to attach them to a camera tripod. they do not NEED a table to use them.

[mr2ns]

Guys,

I have been looking at classifieds and found a possible winner. Its an 8 inch skywatcher:
"Accessory lenses 10mm 25mm and 36 mmm. Moon lens Filter.
Comes with an important view finder telescope vey useful to follow objects in night sky. Also to centre distant objects in main scope. "

The seller says he purchased it 10 years ago. My question is how would this compare to the skywatcher in National Geographic shop? Its a decent price so I am interested.

[inertia8 (Australia)]

Sounds like an 8" dob and would be fine. Try and find out the model number from him.

I find the 8" bintel dob easy to use and easy to transport/move from place to place. The tube can stand vertically on a flat surface on the 6 primary mirror knobs though if it's windy I would not leave it unattended at all (ie: move the base first to your observing position then the tube.)

A finder scope is great once you've got the scope pointed in the general vicinity of the target object but getting it there can be a little challenging. Personally I find the red dot/telrad style finders to be excellent but don't let the lack of one stop you from purchasing one scope over another as they can easily be added to any solid tube scope.

[mr2ns]

It is a dob 8inch but he couldnt get a model number. Just wanted to know if there was a big difference from todays model to one 10 years ago.

[colls (Michael)]

Hi mr2ns,

My first scope was an 8'' Dob base scope from Bintel. Which I found really good.
I found it was easy to transport and when I took it outside, I just took the whole thing include the base and scope out in one go.
I used to stick the base on a square plastic box to save me from bending over as much and certainly saved my back at the end of the night.

So if your budget can stretch a little bit, one of these could be good for you.
http://www.bintel.com.au/Telescopes/...oductview.aspx
I found Bintel down here in Melbourne give good and honest advice.

Michael

[mr2ns]

I got the scope... Brilliant seller and got it for a bargain price. Well looked after, in fact it looks new.

Gave it to the wife and she was super excited... in her words the best present I have ever given her. Anyways setup Thurs night and could see Jupiter and its moons.... amazing....

Now to browse this site for info on what to look for in the sky. I also need to have a decent read of the manual.

[ZeroID (Brent)]

If you haven't already download Stellarium (free) to your PC. You can set it for your own location and find suitable targets for a nights viewing. Find M42. The Great Nebula in Orion. Look just above the three stars that form his 'belt' to his 'sword', note he is upsidedown to us Sthn Hemisphere dwellers. An 8" should easily let you see the dusty cloud around the region. Give your eyes some time to dark adapt and you'll see even more.

[mr2ns]

Hi

Thanks for the app. Installed and is useful. Is there a tool to basically guide your telescope to find what your looking for. Ive heard a mention of some sort of lasers you attach to guide, or is that not possible with my 8inch skywatcher?

Also what adaptors or eye pieces can anyone recommend me to get next?

For example with Jupiter, yes you can see a white circle with two lines going across it and the moons but is there any chance of seeing it more larger or more detail with my 8 inch?

[Retrograde (Pete)]

Originally Posted by mr2ns

Is there a tool to basically guide your telescope to find what your looking for. Ive heard a mention of some sort of lasers you attach to guide, or is that not possible with my 8inch skywatcher?

Also what adaptors or eye pieces can anyone recommend me to get next?

Hi mr2ns,

Hope you are enjoying your scope.
To guide your telescope for you you'd probably need something like Argo-Navis which would probably cost more than what you paid for your scope (and that's assuming it would fit your scope which would need some investigation to determine).

Your best bet for now is to work out what you can do with what you've already got. That means learning how to efficiently use your finder scope and how to 'star-hop' from easily found bright stars to the desired object you want to view.
This takes some practice and can often be a bit frustrating at first but hang in there and you'll get much more proficient. Getting along to a group observing session with your scope would be a great idea as experienced observers would no doubt be happy to show you how to use your kit most effectively.

As for viewing Jupiter or other planets you'll currently get the most magnification with your 10mm eyepiece. If you want to see Jupiter larger than that you'll need a shorter focal length eyepiece (a 5mm will give you double the magnification of your 10mm) but as your magnification increases the "seeing" (stability of the atmosphere) becomes increasingly important. On nights of poor seeing a higher magnification will not show you any additional detail despite the larger image. Your other option for higher magnification is a Barlow lens which has it's own advantages and disadvantages compared to a short focal-length eyepiece.