Fewer Australian final year school students taking science and maths

[gary]

Nicky Philips, Science Editor at the Sydney Morning Herald, reports on
the trend of fewer Australian high school students studying science
and mathematics in their final year.

Originally Posted by Nicky Phillips, Science Editor, Sydney Morning Herald

In 2012 there were 30,800 more students in year 12 than in 1992 but 8000 fewer physics students, 4000 fewer chemistry students and 12,000 fewer biology students than two decades previously. Earth science, the least popular science subject, was the only science course analysed where participation rates increased.

Story here :-
http://www.smh.com.au/technology/sci...06-10qvq2.html

[Nikolas (Nik)]

Well considering this government and some previous governments have declared war on science is it any wonder?
There are so many disincentives for science in this country and the thing that galls me the most is we do produce good scientists

[xelasnave]

No enough promotion.
We need to give kids reasons that make it appealing.
The forensics on tv has caused interest in usa.
Scientists should be prompted like musicians and athelets.
Clever country maybe not.

[xelasnave]

No enough promotion.
We need to give kids reasons that make it appealing.
The forensics on tv has caused interest in usa.
Scientists should be prompted like musicians and athelets.
Clever country maybe not.

[multiweb (Marc)]

It's all about marketing, design, branding and sales these days. No real substance. Even in engineering degrees kids are advised by lecturers to move to a managerial position asap because of remuneration. Same thing happened years ago with the medical sector. Surgeons vs. Dentists. Shorter studies time, bigger pay cheque with a practice in the long run, lower insurance premiums, less risk of exposure to lawsuits, etc, etc....

[Dave2042 (Dave)]

Fewer.

Sorry. Pedantic but I can't help it.

[Solitarian]

The issue has begun to be addressed by the establishment of the new Australian Curriculum by the Rudd government , it was implemented in 2013.
The effect of this won't show up in stats based before this time (as in the article). The article only shows where the previous road led and confirms that change was needed.
Science, along with the forgotten subjects history and geography are back as main stream subjects that start in primary school.

My youngest daughter is in Year 7 and loves science, as do most of the kids, they are naturally inquisitive. The idea is to give them a taste young, get them thinking, inquiring and solving problems earlier. Then they will only be expanding their skill set when they hit high school and pick up chem, physics and biology.

At the senior level they need to limit the subject choices, it's too easy for students to walk away from main stream subjects and select easier options. There's multiple levels of Maths in High School, it's easy to side step the Advanced Maths and take up a simpler Maths level and some other subject filler ... such as cake decorating.

[gary]

Originally Posted by Dave2042

Fewer.

Sorry. Pedantic but I can't help it.

No problem. Thanks!

[mathewb]

One has to remember that in 1992 the number of subjects (options) available to students was much more limited than it is today.

Even as a primary teacher there seems to be more and more added to the curriculum that then impacts on the amount of time that can be spent teaching the basics.

As for the new science curriculum, its great (at least in primary) there is less emphasis on the writing down of 'boring' things and more on the fun 'doing' of things.

Slainte,
Matt.

[pfitzgerald (Paul)]

My two bob's worth -

One of the major reasons why students do not pursue Physics and the 'harder' Mathematics subjects is because universities have removed them as prerequisites form their courses. This has encouraged students to chase subjects that will 'boost' their ATAR without necessarily giving them a good grounding in the required skills. It would be really interesting to see data that compares the decline in numbers of students against the removal of prerequisite subjects for courses, sadly the data isn't available.

There are significant numbers of engineering students who are switching from the engineering sector into teaching these days but their grounding, through no fault of their own in topics like electromagnetism, light and matter, astronomy, relativity etc is poor and often dates back to their own days in high school. I have not seen a 'pure' Physics student teacher on teaching rounds at my school for the best part of ten years. And I've only supervised two 'pure' Physics trainee teachers in the past sixteen years. There are some out there - but my goodness they are few and far between!

Paul

[gary]

There is a follow-up article today in the Sydney Morning Herald by
Nicky Phillips and Amy McNeilage entitled, "Student exit from maths
and science to go under microscope".

Originally Posted by Nicky Phillips and Amy McNeilage, Sydney Moring Herald

Many senior school students are abandoning challenging maths and science subjects because they are no longer prerequisites for university courses, says the head of the NSW curriculum authority.

Over the past decade, almost all NSW universities have dropped subject requirements for many degrees.

"Why would you struggle through those very difficult subjects if you don't need them to gain entry to university?" Tom Alegounarias, the president of the NSW Board of Studies, Teaching and Educational Standards, said.

The proportion of Australia's year 12 students studying maths and science has decreased dramatically over the past 20 years, as the Herald reported on Monday.

Mr Alegounarias argued the shrinking proportion of students taking high-level maths and science was also linked to the growing selection of subjects available, as well as the elevated school-leaving age of 17 since 2010.

But Sydney science teacher John Kennedy said it was also clear that many students were turning off science and maths in their early school years.

"We know when they come into year 7 they're bright-eyed and bushy-tailed," Mr Kennedy, the head of science at St Andrew's Cathedral School, said.

"But we don't know what happens to them from year 7 to year 10 when they make their decisions for their final-year subjects."

To unravel this trend, Mr Kennedy is embarking on a world-first longitudinal study to understand when, how and why students are less likely to select science and maths courses in their final years of school.

Interested readers can find the article here :-
http://www.smh.com.au/technology/sci...07-10rff1.html

[lollywater (Paul)]

Back in 1970,there was 2 tiers of maths-1/General Maths or 2/ Pure and Applied (2subjects).
Today there are 3 tiers. A lot seem to be opting for Further Maths and Maths Methods and leaving Specialist in droves. Today a Specialist maths equivalent appears to be done in first semester of most Engineering courses and Specialist is not a pre requisite.

In 1970 it was easy to pass in Pure and Applied as long as you did a bit of study. The format was 10 questions in 3 hours. The first 3 or 4 were straightforward and were all that was required to get a good pass. This meant you didn't have to be a hot shot to cope with higher maths and a higher proportion took it on. If you were in the top 8% then ,as now ,you got an A. With the 3 tier, it appears many students who are pretty good at maths opt out of the more difficult Specialist. Back in my day(did I just say that) those pretty good at maths did the higher 2
Maybe the choices should be limited back to 2. (I would hope this would not reduce the numbers in higher maths even further)
Paul

[Renato1 (Renato)]

Students are wisely going for where the money is.

I worked for 30 year in one government Department where science and engineering should have had pride of place (Defence). And it did when I joined it - scientists and engineers were held in high esteem and had lots of internal organisations designed to give them a career path and to train the new ones in that organisation's function.

However, during that 30 years, science and engineering classifications were done away with, internal technical organisations were dismantled, career paths destroyed, and a lot of corporate knowledge vanished. Scientists and engineers were instead seen as bolt-ons to various procurement organisations, like the finance person and the contracts person. When in strife - hire outside consultants at huge hourly rates.

Regards,
Renato

[clive milne]

Originally Posted by Renato1

Students are wisely going for where the money is.

Yep, we definitely need more lawyers, meth labs, stock brokers and lobbyists.

[BPO]

Originally Posted by clive milne

Yep, we definitely need more lawyers, meth labs, stock brokers and lobbyists.

The national obsession is houses (In NZ, Oz and the west in general). It's essentially a fetish, and the upshot is our adult population has driven property prices into the stratosphere by buying and selling houses to each other at ever-increasing prices.

The inevitable result is today's kids know their only hope of ever owning a home of their own is by choosing a career that pays well.

Is any of this sane? No, of course not, but it is what it is. Remember that as you gleefully plan to purchase your second or sixth "investment property." Those disappointed young couples at the auctions will almost certainly become accountants or lawyers just to be able to have a hope at the next auction.

[Speccyman]

It would have been great to have maintained an automotive industry but even that's gone. Just when the AUD was returning to a more export friendly state.

[5ash (Philip)]

I think way back in the 70's or 80's the labour government promised that everyone should have the opportunity to go to university , the school leaving age was raised , employers started to expect apprentices to go through years 11 & 12 and successive state and federal governments tinkered with the curriculum. Discipline in schools went down hill and the calibre of students daring to become teachers fell , at one stage TER's to enter university for teaching degrees fell to 65 . University has become something "we must do" at the end of year 12 , hence the huge number of students doing arts degrees. Universities have catered for this trend by "inventing?." courses more appropriate to TAFE . I could go on for hours about this , so I'll stop now .
Philip ( retired physics / chemistry teacher)

[Huey (Michael)]

I wholeheartedly agree with Phillip. May I add that teacher education has also suffered over the years. We need teachers who have the depth of knowledge and a passion for teaching. Especially since teachers these days have to compete with the internet, smartboards/computers and multimedia to name a few of the "distractions" for kids. Many see teaching just as a job, not a way of life. The government tries to address some of the issues by requiring teachers to have basic literacy standards. What does that say about students who enter teaching? No wonder science is unpopular among students and teachers. I have seen Chemistry and Physics disappear from the school curriculum and Biology just hanging on, simply because it was discouraged by the executive to improve the school's marks. This trend continues unfortunately.

Huey (retired Physics and Biology teacher)