Hello from Newbie

[timbo475]

Hi all,

Thought I'd introduce myself as no doubt I'll be bothering you all with some questions about the universe (now that's a sentence I never thought I'd say, except perhaps to a deity).

I'm a complete newbie but have been doing a fair bit or research into astronomy (including plenty of lurking about this forum). I'm on the edge of information overload (it is the universe we're talking about - it's quite big) but enjoying the journey so far - I'm pretty much right at the beginning, though.

I've been thinking of dipping my toes into astronomy and recently my siblings bought me a telescope as a 40th present (damned nice of them, really!). It was a Celestron Astromaster LT70AZ and it didn't take long before I decided I needed something with more oomph so I've recently acquire a Bintel 10" dob (after a fair bit of research). A did an astronomy course via Coursera a while back (didn't quite finish it but close) so have some basic knowledge and know a little astro lingo now but I can tell this is going to be quite a journey ahead of me.

My first go was a few nights ago and I saw venus (that sucker is bright!) and found a few stars but it was a bit aimless so I've got to get me a more specific plan I'd like to try and find some nice DSOs but haven't been albe to so far - any advice on finding DSOs is welcome.
I'm eagerly awaiting Jupiter and Saturn!

I'm going to have loads of questions but for now:
- colimation; Bintel do colimate their scopes I believe, but I suspect it's a good idea to check colimation (and correct if necessary) to give me a good starting baseline. I got a laser colimator (oriion lasermate deluxe II) but it seems a cheshire tube might have been better. Will the lasermate do or should I invest in a cheshire?
- navigating the sky; I've got Stellarium and a starwheel and also just recently downloaded Taki's star maps. The star maps are a little difficult to follow - any good resources for using these? I'm getting a bit lost in the sky but part of the learning process I reckon.

Anyway, I just wanted to introduce myself and give a bit of a background - this is probably enough for now!

Oh yeah - and apologies in advance for the cloudy skies (although it actually looks like it might be a reasonably good night in Sydney tonight)......

cheers,

Timbo

[Rex]

Hi Timbo and welcome to IIS. Mate your laser should do fine for your dob, I have the same laser and use it on my 12 inch f/5 dob. I also have a cheshire, and I used to check my collimation with the chesire after using the laser and its always been spot on, so now when I use my Dob I just use the laser. Anything below an f/5 the laser may not be quite as accurate but for that scope it should be fine. The only thing I would suggest is you check how centered the laser stays when you turn it in the focusser. There are adjustment screws around the outside of the collimator to adjust if necessary. If you serach the forums here you will find some posts about collimating your laser collimator, so to speak. Sounds like you are on the right track for finding your first DSO. As you become more familiar with the sky, those star maps should become easier to use, and then you will be away. The other thing you can do is go to a reasonably dark sky site and just look around at the sky, when you see a bright smudge, point your scope at it. If you find a spot that's dark enough so the milky way is visible, then M8, Omega Cent, 47 Tuc, are visible as smudges to the naked eye. Good lucj=k and have fun.

[peterhammond14]

Hi Timbo

I'm quite new to this as well. I've only been out about 10 times now but the last three or four times have been great. I was the same as you, the first few times I saw Saturn and venus which were amazing but I had no clue how to find anything else. The best thing is to actually have someone show you but that's not always easy and I've only recently had someone do that.

What I've started doing now is choosing a constellation that I will concentrate on each time a go out. First I used stellarium to see what constellations will be out at what times and then I look up what is in that constellation to see. I have a book called "Atlas of the Southern Night Sky", and from that I can find out what is in each constellation. I normally only see a few things each night and they're mainly clusters, but I'm getting better and hope to see more nebulae and maybe a galaxy one day! I saw one at uni but have never been able to find one on my own.

If you have a smart phone or tablet you should also get an astronomy app. I have one called "Goskywatch". You just point your phone in the sky and it shows you what's there. I don't use it as much as I used to but it is quite handy. I found a few DSO's just using this but I find that if I try and learn the constellation I not only see things but It's easier to remember where I saw them.

If you're really keen to easily see a DSO you could wait up for Orion. I did a few weeks ago and it was one of the best things I've ever seen. As I said, I'm quite new to this and I'm sure there are better ways but doing this has helped me.

[noeyedeer (Matt)]

hi Timbo,
Venus at the moment is in a very rich field of DSOs inbetween Scorpio and Sagittarius. use a low power eye piece and just move the scope around Venus, or use your finderscope and you'll see quite a few objects.

best thing to do is to plan ahead and give it a go. the best part about it is the thrill of the chase and then the reward of finding what you're looking for. enjoy

matt

[wobbygong (Charlie)]

Hi Timbo

I am also relatively new here.

Up until recently I only knew the more easily recognisable constellations eg Orion, Southern Cross, Scorpio type of thing. But I have been going out over the last few weeks and learnt a few more. For me the easiest way to do this was to head out with one of those monthly star charts and slowly pick out 2 -3 new constellations each night. I found just using the naked eye was easiest, the wide field of view lets you can see how they fit together.

Another good DSO is the globular cluster 47 Tuc (NGC 104), its not hard to find, iits a sort of fuzzy looking 'star' just above the SMC. It was pretty spectacular when I looked at it through my cheap 80mm refractor a couple of days ago, I reckon it'd be a blast through a 10' dob.

cheers

[Kunama]

Welcome Timbo, and a happy 40th, I set myself targets for each viewing session to track down certain objects. I make a few notes before going out to make star-hopping more fluent. (Then when my skills fail me I turn to the NGC-Max DSC to take up the slack.

Hope you enjoy your new scope.

[PSALM19.1 (Shaun)]

Hey Timbo! Yes, welcome to a large world..or...universe! Don't worry, with a 10" scope you'll be an expert in no time! As mentioned by others, if you have a Tablet, Iphone etc, there are awesome apps to help you find stuff! Mobile Observatory for Android is the best I've seen; also the annual book, Astronomy Australia is excellent! Enjoy!

[noeyedeer (Matt)]

Originally Posted by PSALM19.1

Hey Timbo! Yes, welcome to a large world..or...universe! Don't worry, with a 10" scope you'll be an expert in no time! As mentioned by others, if you have a Tablet, Iphone etc, there are awesome apps to help you find stuff! Mobile Observatory for Android is the best I've seen; also the annual book, Astronomy Australia is excellent! Enjoy!

I second Mobile Observatory. my goto app for planning. simple and nothing fancy like sky safari pro, just limited with the ncg catalogue thou

[MichaelSW (Michael)]

Timbo.

G'day.

I'm sure you will find many DSOs to enjoy with your 10" dob.

I went along to Queensland Astrofest 2009 to "try before I buy". There I met "Star-Hopper" (GlenC) and was given two amazing tours of the sky. The first night was through a 16" Lightbridge and the second through the 25" SDM #004 - and all objects were found without any electronic aids. This experience set me on my particular path into Astronomy - buy the biggest aperture I could afford, and learn to star-hop. (I ended up with a Skywatcher 12" collapsable dob).

Glen's advice was the same back then as you will see in his 'posts' now - start with learning the 20 brightest stars as a way of getting around the sky. My list of "usual suspects" is growing steadily, though not all are locked away in long term memory - I still have to get my books out sometimes.

If you are not inclined to start with a constellation map and FIND objects by working it out for yourself, then as a starting point, I highly recommend, "Star Watch - The Amateur Astronomer's Guide To Finding, Observing, and Learning about Over 125 Celestial Objects" by Philip S. Harrington.

This book presents star charts for each of the Seasons with clear instructions for star-hopping you way to targets. And once you realise you can do it .....well the sky is the limit.

You will also see advice about recording your observations. As you learn your star-hops, you will come to notice your own markers in the star fields that get you to the destination. I am lazy - I do not make notes or draw little diagrams. It seems that every 'season' I have to re-discover the extra things I noticed and then forgot from the year before. I keep saying that one day I will start keeping notes - it would be helpful.

Happy hunting.

Michael.

[timbo475]

Thanks for the replies. Obviously part of the process is learning the scale of the views through the finder scope and the various lenses compared with the naked eye.
A lot of articles talk about using binocs to learn about the constellations and to be honest I jumped this step as I wanted a new toy! I think I'll get some binocs though. I beleive I'll grab something like 10x50s - something easy and light to help learn the sky - I'd not really want to spend more than $200 but there's such a variety out there - any recommendations around that prices range?

I think I have been finding M8 but it's looking more like an open(ish) cluster than a cloud at the moment. I'm in the inner west of Sydney so it could just be a light polution thing but I also suspect collimation might be out a bit - I'll be attempting to collimate this weekend possibly. The sky out this way hasn't been terribly dark and I'm really only able to see the brightest stars with my naked eye. Dark sky sites beckon!

If the laser collimator appear to be uncollimated out of the box, should I be taking it back or is this expected with laser collimators? I've been reading a fair few articles about collimation and will probably be getting a cap/site tube to make sure secondary is aligned before relying on laser I think.

[coldknights (Cathy)]

Hi Timbo, this link may help.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8G98RTP6jbY

[wobbygong (Charlie)]

For what its worth I find learning the constellations using the naked eye easier than with binoculars. The main reason is that I can see the whole constellation that way, whereas binos usually only show a part of it. Learning the names of the brightest stars was useful as well.

cheers

[timbo475]

Right then - still figuring out the collimation thing but starting to understand it (I think). I made myself a cap out of a blank I got with another telescope and although I think I've collimated it I'm not sure it's done properly. I don't trust the laser collimator as it doesn't seem to be consistent. After reading astro-baby's guide I think I'll get a cheshire/site tube to check (not sure a cap by itself is good enough). Work in progress......

I've had a few viewing sessions and keep trying to get M8 - I believe I've found it but still can't resolve a cloud as such. Perhaps I just need to look at it for longer?
I have found a few other objects though - M22, M25 and C93 - my first clusters! They're a little feint but I could see them as a blur in my finder so was able to find them fairly easily.

I will have to get this sucker out to a dark site as I'm sure it will be a whole new ballgame.

[philipheaven (Philip)]

Hi Timbo,
I've been reading your issues with laser collimation with some confusion. A laser collimator should really be the quickest, easiest and most accurate way to collimate a reflector. I would trust a laser beam much more than trying to do it by sight alone.

I've never heard of a laser collimated being 'uncollimated.' Laser collimators are simply lasers housed inside a 1.25mm eyepiece. They are aligned in factory and are almost exact (if you buy a good quality one). You insert them in your scope as you would an eyepiece, and then rely on the beam which reflects off the primary and secondary and back onto the target of the laser collimator itself to align the mirrors.

What laser collimator have you been using? In what way is it not consistent? A good laser collimator should allow you to align both the primary and the secondary mirrors.

This is the laser collimator I use.

http://www.bintel.com.au/Accessories...oductview.aspx

I collimate my telescope at the beginning of every observing session, as my telescope never holds perfect collimation after being moved. I've never come across a reflector that holds collimation perfectly from observing session to observing session.

[philipheaven (Philip)]

Timbo,
Just saw you've got an orion laser mate deluxe collimator. As you can see that's what I use. I also use a Bintel reflector.

You really don't need anything else besides that laser to collimate your scope. Start by collimating the secondary mirror. This is done by ensuring the laser red dot is centred on the circle in the middle of your primary mirror. Once that is centred align the primary mirror by ensuring the laser dot is centred on the cross hairs on the actual laser collimator.

If you want good consistency in your scope I'd be collimating before every viewing session. While Bintel reflectors are very good they do tend to lose collimation easily just through the action of being picked up and placed down outside.

[Camelopardalis (Dunk)]

Welcome Timbo!

I have a different type of scope so can't help you with collimation I'm afraid but would thoroughly recommend you find space in your calendar for treating your eyes to one of the regular observing meets in the Sydney area - take a look in the Star Parties, Clubs and Community events section. These typically happen around New Moon for best contrast for DSO viewing, so in about 2 weeks from now and roughly every 4 weeks.

The objects you mention (with the exception of maybe C93) are all quite low in altitude at this time of year and especially in the Sydney area are swimming in the atmospheric soup. Objects in Sagittarius and Scorpius are best left for a while, but come winter they'll be in prime sky real estate bang overhead where you're looking through the least atmosphere.

For getting the hang of magnifications a good practice object would be the Moon, if it ever stops raining the effects of changing one eyepiece for another will be quite pronounced - the Moon is pretty easy to find, and there are bold surface features you can use as frames of reference.

As for learning the constellations... a planisphere is good for getting the brighter ones, and this should be good for City-based viewing, but also easy to use all year round. Mostly, just get out there with your eyes with some frame of reference (map, smart phone app, etc) and take your time to get familiar, the universe isn't going anywhere. I'd even say no need even for binoculars initially (although I am a big fan of them for wide field viewing) for getting the hang of things as all the major constellations are naked eye visibility, even if some can be a challenge, depending on your location. I'm having to re-learn for the most part having moved from England this year, so the few that are familiar are upside down and then there's all the southern constellations I'd not laid eyes on before! All pretty amazing stuff

[timbo475]

Philip - I've read varied opinions about collimation. Some swear by laser collimation, others prefer using cheshires/caps. I suppose it's a case of whatever works! I'm glad to hear that the LaserMate works well for you - perhaps it will be fine for me as well. I've been a bit reluctant with collimation because it feels like I can make it all worse but I'm starting to feel more confident with making adjustments on primary.
Quite a few people seems to mention laser collimators might need collimating themselves (or at least need checking to make sure) but I'm unsure how common a problem it actually is.
The cap and cheshire method appeals to me because you know that there's no chance of the eye needing collimation. I'd also feel more confident in the laser collimator if it was perfectly verticle in the focuser but that's not possible with a dob (even the instructions mention that tightening the thumbscrew can throw it slightly off).
It seems the only way to really test is the star test and conditions haven't allowed me to check it this way yet with any clarity (I think I need a more powerful eyepiece for this as well).

Dunk - thanks for the advice. One thing I did recently realise (which is actually fairly obvious) is that even though it seems fully dark about 8.30, by 9.30 you can actually see much more with the naked eye. I'll have to do some later sessions, but the DSOs I've been trying to find start getting very low.

I'm pretty excited about what lies ahead - alawys something new to look forward to.

[Camelopardalis (Dunk)]

Originally Posted by timbo475

Dunk - thanks for the advice. One thing I did recently realise (which is actually fairly obvious) is that even though it seems fully dark about 8.30, by 9.30 you can actually see much more with the naked eye. I'll have to do some later sessions, but the DSOs I've been trying to find start getting very low.

I'm pretty excited about what lies ahead - alawys something new to look forward to.

Yes, "astronomical darkness" isn't reached until roughly an hour and a half after sunset. As we approach the solstice that will creep to about 10pm.

As a relative newb to these skies, it seems to me that there is a lot more here to get excited about with a sensible sized scope