Whats happening in the good old USA

TrevorW · #1 15-12-2012, 11:17 AM

Another

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-...-in-us-school/

Very sad indeed

asimov (John) · #2 15-12-2012, 11:24 AM

Terrible stuff!

marki · #3 15-12-2012, 11:30 AM

How must the poor parents be copping, I feel sick just reading that.

Mark

bobson (Bob) · #4 15-12-2012, 11:59 AM

Its so sad and disturbing. When will they do something about gun laws?

04Stefan07 (Stefan) · #5 15-12-2012, 12:00 PM

Shocking, shocking news. I can't imagine what the parents must be going through right now.

What was just said, the US really need to do something about gun laws.

LewisM · #6 15-12-2012, 12:04 PM

No amount of gun laws/restrictions will stop murder.

There are a LOT more underlying and underpinning factors inherent in the US psyche and society that can be attributed to the issue OTHER than gun laws.

One way or another, man will always find a way to kill another.

marki · #7 15-12-2012, 12:09 PM

They would have to change their constitution and there is too much opposition for that to happen even in the light of such horrific events. Sad when an ideal is chosen over the cold hard facts of reality.

Mark

bobson (Bob) · #8 15-12-2012, 12:22 PM

Quote:

No amount of gun laws/restrictions will stop murder.

True, but he wouldn't be able to kill that many without guns.

People created constitution and people can change it as well. It will happen but sadly events like this have to happen before people take action.

If you watch news they just said that in China a man has stubbed 20 people in night club but none has died! Need more proof for gun laws??

blink138 (Pat) · #9 15-12-2012, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LewisM

No amount of gun laws/restrictions will stop murder.

There are a LOT more underlying and underpinning factors inherent in the US psyche and society that can be attributed to the issue OTHER than gun laws.

One way or another, man will always find a way to kill another.

i dont think he could have stabbed 28 people to death!
pat
edit: sorry bob didnt see your post

OICURMT · #10 15-12-2012, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marki

They would have to change their constitution and there is too much opposition for that to happen even in the light of such horrific events. Sad when an ideal is chosen over the cold hard facts of reality.

Mark

I hope that this is the event that changes the course of America's will to finally adopt new laws that allow us to maintain some sort of civil society.

The main problem is the pacifistic nature of we Americans and they way we change government. Most simply don't take enough interest, so the lobbyist direct change (or lack there of...) by courting politicians and placating the general population. I have noticed a new wind blowing since the 9/11. Two polar opposites are emerging, strongly pro and defiantly against.

As an American, I can say that I do love the ability to own and maintain weapons... however, I have always been about strict gun control. Every weapon I own is registered, documented and insured. While in the gun safe, they are dismantled (firing assembly are in a different safe). I do this so that if one is stolen, they cannot be used against another individual. When I live in the US, I only have one gun that's always ready to go and that's the one I carry on my body for personal protection.

Gun control in this country is quite adequate and Australians are not prevented from owning weapons. My missus recently got her weapons license in South Australia. The paperwork and scrutiny for her to possess a firearm was incredible. Maybe the USA could learn a good lesson from the Australian model.

About gun laws... the saying "If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns" is true. Australia is a good example of that. HOWEVER, you don't allow psychologically disturbs people to have them, where as we in the USA do... now that's what I call stupid!

I cannot see us changing the constitution, as the amount of energy involved and the requirements for that change will not be possible until the democrats get a strong upper hand in both the House of Representatives and the Senate.

SideBar: The 2nd amendment to the constitution granted the right to bear arms not in the same vein as the old English laws (self protection) but as an additional right for the people of a fledgling nation to rise up against the new government and protect the way of life originally agreed to, should the new government turn away from democracy. There has always been debate regarding whether this is really necessary in today modern democracy.

Scorpius51 (John) · #11 15-12-2012, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LewisM

No amount of gun laws/restrictions will stop murder.

There are a LOT more underlying and underpinning factors inherent in the US psyche and society that can be attributed to the issue OTHER than gun laws.

One way or another, man will always find a way to kill another.

Each of your points is true, but they do not in ANY way justify not addressing the absurd gun laws in the US. Are you suggesting that it is a good idea to have easy access to the plethora of guns in the US, particularly with so many underlying social issue? I have no problem with responsible gun ownership, but I do with such ridiculous laws.

These incidents are appalling! We probably can't stop them happening, but we can surely reduce the frequency, and impact on the lives of innocent people. If nothing is done, then it can only get worse - it certainly won't get better!

TrevorW · #12 15-12-2012, 02:29 PM

Yeah lets just keep it in perspective ie: very sad news and heartfelt sympathy for the parents.

We are not going to change what happens in the US with fervent opinion but maybe the light will eventually come on and they'll make changes.

AndrewJ · #13 15-12-2012, 02:39 PM

Quote:

but maybe the light will eventually come on and they'll make changes.

Not so sure there.
I remember the reaction recently when Obama mentioned trying to at least "limit" access to fully automatic assault rifles.
No one could logically complain about that,
but they did,

Andrew

iceman (Mike) · #14 15-12-2012, 03:04 PM

Deleted Zaps post and a couple that quoted it.

This certainly isn't the time for 'USA bashing'. Keep those opinions to yourself or express them somewhere other than IceInSpace.

Forgey (Paula) · #15 15-12-2012, 03:18 PM

Such tragic news

, thoughts and prayers go out to all.

Stardrifter_WA · #16 15-12-2012, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marki

They would have to change their constitution and there is too much opposition for that to happen even in the light of such horrific events. Sad when an ideal is chosen over the cold hard facts of reality.

Mark

It sad to think that the gun lobby in the US is so strong. Estimates, from various sources show that out of a population of 314 million people there are approximately 280 million guns in private hands; that approximately 90 guns per 100 people.

No legislator would be brave enough to try changing those laws. It will never happen, no matter how many tragedies occur, sadly.

For those that think that humans kill and that guns are not responsible are delusional. Guns make it far easier for someone to carry out vile acts when they suddenly decide to act. Modern history has shown that there are only two weapons that can be used for random acts of gruesome mass killings, guns and explosives.

As Pat (Blink 138) and others mentioned earlier, you just don't see mass stabbings, that result in mass deaths.

For those that think guns should be completely banned, just remember, there is a far far greater killer than guns and wars, for that matter, and that is the motor vehicle. It kills far greater numbers than most modern wars, put together. So, in that same vein, perhaps we should ban cars and go back to horses. Yes, I realise that would be ridiculous, but I use it to provide a little perspective. Spectacular events hi light this tragic problem, but these are relatively small when considering the greatest killer of human beings, the motor car.

My heart goes out to those parents and as a parent, I couldn't imagine a worse thing than to lose a child, let alone lose a child to such a senseless act.

Hans Tucker (Hans) · #17 15-12-2012, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobson

True, but he wouldn't be able to kill that many without guns.

People created constitution and people can change it as well. It will happen but sadly events like this have to happen before people take action.

If you watch news they just said that in China a man has stubbed 20 people in night club but none has died! Need more proof for gun laws??

Sorry to correct you but it wasn't in a night club...it was 22 children he stabbed/wounded.

TrevorW · #18 15-12-2012, 03:55 PM

A nutter is a nutter is a nutter and no matter what laws are introduced someone with the mindset to carry out an act of senseless killing will find one way or another to achieve their aim.

Hans, when I first saw that post I thought they were attacked with a cigarette

bobson (Bob) · #19 15-12-2012, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hans Tucker

Sorry to correct you but it wasn't in a night club...it was 22 children he stabbed/wounded.

Thanks Hans, this is even more to the point I was trying to make!

BPO · #20 16-12-2012, 06:29 AM

None of those Chinese kids died, right?

But that aside, these are all terrible things.