SynScan v3.2 doesnt work with GPS

[allan gould]

Just updated to the latest, greatest version of the SynScan software from Skywatcher (Ver 3.2 from Ver 3.12). Now doesn't recognise my StarGPS-NX unit.
Reloaded the version 3.12 and it does.
Bummer..... are Skywatcher going down the Meade path of patching up one end of their software to leave a hole in it somewhere else. This is what used to frustrate me as an LX50/Magellan II user.
Can't stand poor crappy programming that claims they have fixed all the positional errors for planets/double stars and their associated databases but mess up other aspects that were working just fine.
Anyone else noticed this or are the Gods playing with my mind again? Must get back to my little alfoil hat again to stop the voices.

Just pressed the OFF RANT button but I feel better - why won't the clouds go away?

[allan gould]

Hi Allan,
Please see new reply below.

Kind regards
Rob
Tasco Quality assurance and Service



From: Justin Liu [mailto:jliu@skywatchertelescope.net]
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 5:47 AM
To: service@tasco.com.au
Cc: Frank Y. Liu; Chen Jack \(Mr. 陳金泉\)
Subject: Fw: v3.2 synscan software bug

Hi Rob,

The customer uses a third party GPS receiver, StarGPS-NX, to connect to SynScan V3 hand control.
This is the first time that I heard StarGPS support our binary protocol.
I think that StarGPS-NX is able to switch to emulate SynScan GPS binary protocol output as our SynScan GPS (GT-321F) did.
Unfortunately since the firmware version 3.20 of SynScan, we have modified the program to detect SynScan GPS. If the GPS is not SynScan GPS, it will not be recognized by SynScan hand control.
We could only suggest the customer to keep SynScan hand control with ver.3.12 firmware to connect StarGPS.

Kind regards,

Justin
Tech Support

Just thought members would be interested in Skywatchers report on their new software version for SynScan. Typical example of bugger the people who have bought their units - just like Meade with their attitude to people in the Southern Hemisphere where their software wouldnt work.

[h0ughy (David)]

this sucks big time

[acropolite (Phil)]

I would be contacting StarGPS to see if they have any plans to release a patch for V3.2

[allan gould]

Originally Posted by h0ughy

this sucks big time

Yes I was quite annoyed by this. Chris Carson who sells the StarGPS units is looking into this as he has a far bigger investment with a lot more units sold in the USA. He may have more leaverage they than someone here in OZ.
From skywatcher response it would appear they deliberately altered the coding so it would only work with their unit or why change something that was already working.

PS I'll be posting this info on Cloudy Nights to see if I can really stir the pot for a patch by Skywatcher

[h0ughy (David)]

Originally Posted by allan gould

Yes I was quite annoyed by this. Chris Carson who sells the StarGPS units is looking into this as he has a far bigger investment with a lot more units sold in the USA. He may have more leaverage they than someone here in OZ.
From skywatcher response it would appear they deliberately altered the coding so it would only work with their unit or why change something that was already working.

PS I'll be posting this info on Cloudy Nights to see if I can really stir the pot for a patch by Skywatcher

well done or should I say well stirred

[allan gould]

Well, that was an interesting exercise!!!
Cloudy Nights pulled the thread because I critisised one of their vendors. Surprise, surprise as Cloudy Nights is run and operated by Astronomics.
Now there's a poke in the eye for free speech

[dpastern (Dave Pastern)]

Allan - what did you expect? Any forums that are 'sponsored' by businesses are a danger to free speech.

I suspect that what SkyWatcher are doing is probably illegal, much like Epson tried with its printers a few years ago. Copyright law allows you to reverse engineer an interface etc to allow for compatibility. Sadly, most of the freedoms that the copyright act gives you are taken away by the abhorrent DMCA.

If someone was well versed in law enough (and wealth), a nicely written legal letter to Tasco might "persuade" them that what they're doing is illegal I suspect.

Dave

[marki]

All we can do as consumers is vote with our feet. I know that doesn't help you Allan but unless people make a stand this sort of thing will keep happening. I hope you keep posting your concerns up on the cloudy nights forum in spite of the censorship. Perhaps we could all place random posts all over their forum and keep the moderators busy hitting the delete button .

Ciao Mark

[Omaroo (Chris Malikoff)]

I guess that unless StarGPS advertise 3.2 on ther website you can't assume that it will work with v3.2. They claim that it works with v3.12, so it kind of absolves them. I'm not sure I'd be blaming SkyWatcher for this either - they don't make equipment that is guaranteed or even intended to work with 3rd party solutions. You chose to upgrade, so maybe that responsibility is your own.

Orion Atlas/Sirius GoTo and Sky-Watcher SynScan controlled telescopes include the models listed below. StarGPS-NX requires a hand controller with firmware version 3.10, 3.11 or 3.12.

Still, as stupid as it may seem, they test their hardware on various brands & models (Meade, Celestron, Losmandy Gemini, Vixen StarBook, StarBook Type-S, Orion Atlas/Sirius GoTo, Sky-Watcher SynScan/SkyScan or Astro-Physics GTO. This includes the Celestron CG5, Advanced Series GT (AS-GT), CGE Series, NexStar SE, NexStar SLT, NexStar iSeries, NexStar GT, StarSeeker and the Meade ETX, LXD55, LXD75, LX90, LX200 Classic) and this gives me the impression that they are in the business in a big way. They must test all their offerings with the plethora of units listed here, and in so doing really should put up a plainly-seen disclaimer stating that the unit WON'T work with a specific version of hand controller firmware and WILL work with another.

At the end of the day, it's hard to blame SkyWatcher for evolving its software. If 3rd party hang-ons fail, it's like blaming Microsoft for bothering to attempt to make its operating systems better, and suddenly finding that the Chinese gadget you bought of eBays' drivers don't work any more. The difference is that you chose to upgrade, and it wasn't an automatic night-time procedure that you had no control over and should therefore rightfully complain about. Having said that though, the email from Tasco suggests that Synta have purposely changed their protocol to recognise ONLY Synta-branded GPS units - and this is unconcienable. Whether your brand is affected or not isn't the point - ALL brands other than Synta would be, and they damn-well knew it. To not realise that would have been plain naive of their software engineers and marketing people, so this seems like a ploy to me. To not know that their binary protocol was being used as the basis of communications by 3rd party companies is crap - why else develop and provide the protocol on that interface in the first place?

If they don't mention this where you download their software updates from then they should have rockets placed in their bottoms facing upwards. At least you were able to back-flush, so to speak, and downgrade again to v3.12.

Ultimately, I sincerely think that it is the 3rd party's responsibility to keep up with the host, not the other way around. If this unit isn't upgradable via firmware of its own then you're stuck I'm afraid. Letters a-plenty to SkyWatcher will probably fix this, as one thing the Chinese companies hate is a customer who's willing to publicly expose them with logical criticism.

[h0ughy (David)]

i havent upgraded past 3.12 - probably wont.

[marki]

I wouldn't have a problem with this if they actually built the GPS into the mount as standard. But they don't, their system is a plug in just like the star GPS system. To write other options out of the operating software is just proprietry @#$%&^* and is one of the reasons I would never buy a mac computer or simularly built PC's. The 3.12 software needed improving (I have ver 3.22 on mine) but that is no reason to punish users who have different GPS setups. One of the main reasons I bought my mount was the flexibility but if they don't back track on this I doubt I will buy another.

Ciao Mark

[Omaroo (Chris Malikoff)]

Originally Posted by marki

To write other options out of the operating software is just proprietry @#$%&^* and is one of the reasons I would never buy a mac computer or simularly built PC's.

LOL! This is one of the reasons I do buy Macs. Everything just works because Apple specify the rules of engagement. Always have.

[marki]

Originally Posted by Omaroo

LOL! This is one of the reasons I do buy Macs. Everything just works because Apple specify the rules of engagement. Always have.

Not going to get into a mac vs pc argument here, i'm not, i'm not i'm not. All I will say is when it comes to making changes $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$
Just Like skywatcher forcing you to buy their GPS system if you want to use the latest software.



Ciao Mark

[Omaroo (Chris Malikoff)]

Originally Posted by marki

Not going to get into a mac vs pc argument here, i'm not, i'm not i'm not. All I will say is when it comes to making changes $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$
Just Like skywatcher forcing you to buy their GPS system if you want to use the latest software.



Ciao Mark

No - debate not required. Debates of this nature never result in people understanding where the other is coming from anyway. I'm, an IT director for a creative advertising firm and I have very real reasons to use the appriopriate platform for the appropriate application.

Anyhow - sorry for swerving off-topic here....

[brightstar]

The solution that seems to work for others is to use EQ Mod with any 3rd party GPS equipment.

Here is the link: eq-mod.sourceforge.net

[marki]

Originally Posted by Omaroo

No - debate not required. Debates of this nature never result in people understanding where the other is coming from anyway. I'm, an IT director for a creative advertising firm and I have very real reasons to use the appriopriate platform for the appropriate application.

Anyhow - sorry for swerving off-topic here....

Swerving off topic is my fault. I have a couple of friends who are graphic artists and they too swear by macs and will not use anything else.

Ciao Mark

[mick pinner]

Tasco quality assurance, now that made me laugh.

[Poita (Peter)]

Zombie thread I know, but just checking if it is still the case that the StarGPS doesn't work woth current Synscan versions?

[allan gould]

Peter
Since I now use EQMOD exclusively I haven't used the handset in years and bought a cheap $50 GPS unit that performs well.
Strange to see this thread resurected