Fastest polar alignment mount/software?

[maxwolfie (Greg)]

Hi all,

I need some help. I've been looking at buying a CG-5, HEQ5/HEQ5-PRO and other starter mounts however it has occurred to me that polar alignment in the southern hemisphere is slightly more difficult, and I have been told that polar alignment scopes are as useful as tits on a bull for us downunder because you can't see the damn stars!

Now, like with most things my budget has double or even tripled to get a decent starter mount for AP, but I've realized that if I'm spending more time getting the thing set up than actually taking photos, it's going to end up on eBay very quickly.

So, are there any decent entry level EQ mounts that are faster to align/setup to a point where you can begin AP?

[DavidTrap (David)]

I always laugh when reading CloudyNights at the Yanks who whinge about polar alignment when they can't see Polaris. I've seen threads about people significantly altering design of their observatory so that they could line up on Polaris.

My personal favourite is PoleAlignMax - but it requires a copy of Maxim DL to do the necessary plate solving.

An alternative is to do "drift aligning" using PHD guiding. You turn off the guiding output and watch the graph on the screen which is much more sensitive at detecting drift than your eyeball through a reticle eyepiece.

There are several others that I haven't had experience with, e.g. Alignmaster.

DT

[RobF (Rob)]

Alignmaster works well for many people, but it does seem to require a tight system with no flexure or mirror movement. Another issue is being able to see the star pairs it throws up.

Personally I only ever feel comfortable monitoring drift (or PAM as David said) until I KNOW the field isn't drifting. This is an iterative process, but you can home in very quickly, then spend minutes sitting on the star for final tweaking. Quite possible to have drifting on a meridian and star in East sorted within 10mins if you're in practice.

Depends how well you need to be aligned too of course - focal length you're imaging with, quality of mount, planned length of subs....

[gregbradley]

I don't think there is any way around having to master polar alignment.

If you are starting off I would suggest getting good at drift alignment.

You can do it with your camera if it downloads onto a computer screen. If you are using a DSLR you would have to use a separate specialised eyepiece called a reticule eyepiece. It places a cross hair in the field of view plus it is lit so you can see it. Then follow the many internet posted directions for doing drift alignment.

When you get good at it you can do it in about 45 minutes.

If you set up each night I would suggest putting pavers where your tripod goes and then making marks so you can repeat where the tripod sits night after night with no change. That way you do it once and it works every night thereafter. Another thing I used to do to speed it up was I would put a laser through the polar scope and it would shine a spot of light on the ceiling of my roll off roof. Once aligned I put a bit of black electrical tape on the spot. Next time I setup I simply adjusted the mount so the laser lined up on that spot again (1 minute) and I was all set.

You could mount a laser on the side of your mount and have a target on a nearby fence etc for an outdoor application.

Andy's Shotglass Astronomy sells a cheap overlay for your computer screen with instructions for drift alignment with a CCD camera or a DSLR that is connected to a laptop.

Your results in astrophotography will be no better than your polar alignment so spend some time mastering it. You'll be glad you did in the end.

Some mounts have rapid rough polar alignment setups like the Gemini system and the Paramount PMX. But these are more expensive mounts.

Greg.

[maxwolfie (Greg)]

45 minutes is really beyond what I'm prepared to invest time-wise by about threefold for setup. Considering I will be starting off with my trusty DSLR and 300mm kit lens (i.e. nothing special), I am assuming initial alignment does not need to be absolutely perfect. Knowing this, I am not sure what mount is best to start off with for ease and speed of setting up.

[allan gould]

To be brutally honest if you can't spend the time to master the basics then perhaps astrophotography isn't for you. The better you become familiar with the fundamentals the quicker the whole procedure becomes. And then you know how your equipment behaves and it becomes second nature. Polar alignment is a must for excellent guiding as is perfect focus - without these two you are wasting your time no matter what level of equipment you have.
Just my 2c

[maxwolfie (Greg)]

Sorry, let me re-phrase. I don't want to have to spend 45 minutes setting up for excellent accuracy EVERY time. I.e. on weeknights, after I get home from work, I was hoping spending 10-15 minutes doing a quick polar alignment. I was hoping that 10 - 15 mins could net me a decent enough alignment to do a few short subs at camera-lens focal lengths (up to 300mm).

Of course, when I have more time available, I have no issues with spending more time to get a really good alignment for longer subs and focal lengths.

[Paul Haese]

Greg, I am not sure you have the right attitude for this part of the hobby. As Anthony Wesley once told me when I was getting frustrated with seeing, "This hobby is not for the impatient".

Learning polar alignment will enhance your skills in astrophotography, it will help you to trouble shoot problems with regard to guiding etc. There are programs that will help you do polar alignment but I am yet to see them allow you to setup in 5 minutes. 45 minutes is fast and as has been suggested you can put aids down in place that will speed up the process faster still.

Anything worth doing is worth doing well.

[Astroman (Andrew Wall)]

If you can learn drift aligning etc... spend a couple of nights getting it as near to exact as you can, mark the placement of tripod legs etc, if it's portable. Then once you setup again each night you will only need to spend a few minutes getting the alignment. As long as you dont move the EQhead in altitude and setup the tripod the same way ie. Level. Then if will take many minutes off you setting up each time. I used to use three paving squares with marks on them I put the tripod legs onto. These squares were recessed into my lawn so I could go over them with the lawn mower and didn't move... Very handy if you just spend the time a few nights to set it up and dont worry about catching photons, the objects wont be going anywhere in a hurry... (except for cloud cover).

[maxwolfie (Greg)]

Sorry my last post was probably a bit misleading in regards to my expectations.

I know alignment is critical however I still want the ability to "roughly align" as needed, when time is short. On weekends I would be quite happy to sit as long as required to get as close to perfect alignment as possible.

I am still hoping for some comments on the various software available (NexStar vs. SynScan/EDMOD basically). As mentioned I'm tossing up with the HEQ5-Pro and the CG-5. Ultimately setup time plays a big part, and if Celestron's "All-Star Alignment" feature is going to trump setup time compared to what is required when using SynScan or EQMOD, well that's a big selling point for me.

[DavidTrap (David)]

A 300mm focal length camera lens is going to be less critical on polar alignment vs a 2000mm focal length scope.

Nonetheless the guys are right, astrophotography is like a sewer - what you get out of it depends on what you put into it! I have done everything possible (other than build an observatory at home) to speed my setup and pull down. Look not just at saving time on polar aligning, but also on cabling and ancillary equipment setup (laptop, power supplies, cables, hubs). I have wiring looms with spiral cable wrap that save me considerable time.

DT

[alocky (Andrew lockwood)]

I use a polar alignment scope on my G11 (and I live in the southern hemisphere). The first time I used it it took nearly two frustrating hours kneeling in damp grass to figure it out, (not realising it was an inverted view was part of it!). But second time it only took minutes.
This was good enough for 5 minute subs at 500mm fl.
cheers,
Andrew.

[brian nordstrom (As avatar)]

Originally Posted by maxwolfie

Hi all,

I need some help. I've been looking at buying a CG-5, HEQ5/HEQ5-PRO and other starter mounts however it has occurred to me that polar alignment in the southern hemisphere is slightly more difficult, and I have been told that polar alignment scopes are as useful as tits on a bull for us downunder because you can't see the damn stars!

Now, like with most things my budget has double or even tripled to get a decent starter mount for AP, but I've realized that if I'm spending more time getting the thing set up than actually taking photos, it's going to end up on eBay very quickly.

So, are there any decent entry level EQ mounts that are faster to align/setup to a point where you can begin AP?

Hi Greg , I feel your pain , it can be difficult getting a good polar allignment here in the south .
I have an Ioptron IEQ45 and I an polar alligned in under 5 miniutes using its GPS and software , its really easy , just plonk the mount down pointing roughly south , wait for GPS lock , and follow a pionter on the hand set , east or west , up and down and " Bingo " polar alligned .
It did take a little to learn , about 20 miniutes the first time , but it works very well . .
I have read that the new SW software is similar .
Good luck with you choice .
Brian.

[maxwolfie (Greg)]

Thanks David/Andrew, good feedback.

I live in the middle of Sydney so I'm not sure if a polar scope is going to work due to LP? I have heard that this may be the case.

[alocky (Andrew lockwood)]

Originally Posted by maxwolfie

Thanks David/Andrew, good feedback.

I live in the middle of Sydney so I'm not sure if a polar scope is going to work due to LP? I have heard that this may be the case.

Ahh - yes, very true. I can use mine under mag >5 skies, but recently when I took the whole kit over to Brisbane for the transit of venus I had to drift align because the full moon wiped evrything out. It was only when I'd drift aligned that I was able to just pick up the stars in the polar scope with averted vision - not great.
The newer goto systems like the Ioptron described earlier sound very good in this repsect, and I've got a friend with an HEQ6 that does something quite similar in an irritatingly pain free way.
cheers,
Andrew

[Astro_Bot]

Originally Posted by alocky

... I've got a friend with an HEQ6 that does something quite similar in an irritatingly pain free way.

NEQ6? Is that the 3.28 beta firmware with "polar re-align" feature?

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...ad.php?t=89312

[g__day (Matthew)]

PEMPRo has a polar alignment wizard too.

Also there are simple Excel spreadsheet calculators online that if you know your angular drift rate (arc seconds per pixel in each axis) - they can estimate your degree of polar mis-alignment (helps with the PHD method - better estimate of how much change to give to each axis).

[RobF (Rob)]

Greg, I stand by what I said earlier - if you have a practiced routine, you can get polar aligned in your backyard in under 20mins, probably 10, especially if you're imaging at 300mm focal length. You'll need to be monitoring a camera on a star with software to pull this off. It can certainly be done.

However, in order to reach that point I can also confidently say you'll have spent 10-30hrs mastering the process and learning all the ways you can stuff it up. That's also a general theme in the thread you've started here.

As long as you learn something each outing and eventually get good results its worth it. It is actually worth having a go at all the options available as you'll learn something as well as figuring out what works best for you. That is, polar alignment scope, compass and level, alignmaster, camera/software assisted drift aligning, plate solving (PAM, etc), Alignmaster.

Its certainly worth working your way up in the hobby slowly, mastering one thing at a time. Might also be helpful to hear a bit more info on the rig you're thinking of assembling and types of objects you'd be after?

[silv (Annette)]

Brian, I am impressed with what you re saying about the Ioptron IEQ45.
(With the price, too )

[Dennis]

Here is a quick and dirty method for the daytime:

http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...ad.php?t=14036

Cheers

Dennis