NGC3199 narrow band reprocessed

[Paul Haese]

I wasn't real happy with the first rendition of the narrow band image I put up and judging by the number of comments I figure that many others did not really like either.

I tried Ken Crawfords tutorial on narrowband clipping which woudl work really well on many other objects except this one. The SII data in this object and region is pretty low and that makes for blending challenges.

In the end I simply did combined two images to get on out. One with Ha mapped to green, OIII to red, SII to blue and then one with Ha to red OIII to green and SII to blue. This resulted in the stars looking better than before, and also the colour looking overall more pleasing.

Click here for the larger image which shows the delicate shells up close.

[Mighty_oz (Marcus)]

I like it lovely colours, it's a decent start hey.

[Paul Haese]

Thanks Marcus, appreciate your comments. Perhaps the colouring is not to many peoples taste. I do invite people to comment on the colouring and what they think of the image.

[Rigel003 (Graeme)]

Originally Posted by Paul Haese

In the end I simply did combined two images to get on out. One with Ha mapped to green, OIII to red, SII to blue and then one with Ha to red OIII to green and SII to blue.

Is that allowed??? I guess there are no rules with false colour images but if you map the channels with a single colour palette then at least we know which colours represent what.

Having said that, it's a very attractive image and beautifully executed. However the pale blue makes me think it's a reflection nebula, which it isn't - I guess it looks close enough to an RGB and that it kind of plays mind tricks.

(...and IMHO narrowbanding at Clayton is waste of those beautiful dark skies you have. Maybe you could compromise and add some narrowband data to your LRGBs for extra highlights.)

[Paul Haese]

Note I have loaded a much larger image on my site.


Not sure if there are any rules Graeme. Could be though.
The trouble with this image is that the LRGB has virtually no nebulosity at all. I was surprised at how little it does contain. There is some faint stuff in the red and some very faint stuff in the blue and that is it. Probably not an image for LRGB.

Perhaps you are right about wasting sky time at Clayton but I am planning much bigger targets which have a full spectrum of imaging opportunity.

Yes the blue does present as being reflection but I think with narrowband you cannot use the same interpretive ideas as in LRGB. Ken Crawford used this very same colour palette and came to a similar look that I did. Albeit very differently no doubt. I guess it boils down to dealers choice as Mr Ward would say. In any event it was a tough object and I learnt a few more tricks in processing.

[mill (Martin)]

Lovely picture Paul and in the large picture there are small swirls to see, it might even hold some more selective sharpening so it pops even more.

[Peter.M]

I find it interesting that the LRGB contain no nebulosity, since these narrow band lines are contained within the broadband RGB filters. I guess that just means that it is so dim that light polution still effects the broadband images.

As for the colours I like the stars, the subtle shades of blue and orange are nice. The nebulosity is great also I love the shades of orange through the blue and the background.

[astronobob (Bob)]

Great work on capturing the fainter wisps Paul, as you know your methods are way over my head, tho beeing invited I see a lot of blue stars but the processing Neb colours & the rest look great, actually a lot better than others ive seen Top work !

[Peter Ward]

NB is tricky. The only thing I'd comment on is: the stars are a little monochromatic (tending blue-cyan).

I like the shells. Lots of interesting structure there

[marco (Marco Lorenzi)]

Hi Paul, I am not a big fan of mapped images, however this is a very nice one. So nice that actually you made me put this target in my to-do list too

Ciao
Marco

[Paul Haese]

Originally Posted by mill

Lovely picture Paul and in the large picture there are small swirls to see, it might even hold some more selective sharpening so it pops even more.

Hmmm maybe. I will take a bit of a look. I did a very slight sharpen on a 45% mask early on but could maybe venture a little harder with max filter sharpen via mask.

Originally Posted by Peter.M

I find it interesting that the LRGB contain no nebulosity, since these narrow band lines are contained within the broadband RGB filters. I guess that just means that it is so dim that light polution still effects the broadband images...

No light pollution from where I am imaging it. If I get time I will post some of the individual frames of an LRGB. Yes there is some of the band within each filter but not enough to show this sort of detail and intensity by a long shot.

Thanks for your thought and nice comments.

Originally Posted by astronobob

Great work on capturing the fainter wisps Paul, as you know your methods are way over my head, tho beeing invited I see a lot of blue stars but the processing Neb colours & the rest look great, actually a lot better than others ive seen Top work !

Not much skill level on this one Bob, just happen stance really, but thank you anyway.

Originally Posted by Peter Ward

NB is tricky. The only thing I'd comment on is: the stars are a little monochromatic (tending blue-cyan).

I like the shells. Lots of interesting structure there

Yes NB is so tricky and matter of choice really. As you say dealers choice. I think though some colourings look more effective than others.

You could be right about the blue stars. Just staring at them now I see a little too much cyan. Will take a look at this in a while. Thanks for pointing it out.

I like the structure too. Pretty cool looking.

Originally Posted by marco

Hi Paul, I am not a big fan of mapped images, however this is a very nice one. So nice that actually you made me put this target in my to-do list too

Initially I did not think narrow band would be for me either. I found though that it is the combination of the data which is important and can make or break an image. That green look is a bit of a turn off, but subtle blues and yellows always look great.

Well thank Ken Crawford. I did a search on the net and there are only a few examples of this object. One of note is Ken's and the other is Steve Crouch. I particularly liked Ken's and thought it had great potential.

I look forward to your result and thanks for you comments.

[Paul Haese]

RGB added to the data now and blue star colour adjustment.

[Ross G]

Nice photo Paul.

The colours look good.


Ross.

[strongmanmike (Michael)]

The big one on your web site looks ok.

It's quite a good image really.. just not an attractive field I recon

One for the 12" RC on a night of good seeing perhaps?

Mike

[gregbradley]

Kind of an odd image Paul. Does it come up in HaLRGB or is that neb mainly O111? Perhaps O111LRGB might suit it better?

The neb part looks too bright to me with the very faint browny dust background very slight but the blue stars are a detraction plus a lot have filter halos around them. So the overall look to the image is blue everything.

I'd suggest ditching the blue stars and getting the RGB stars in place, perhaps tone down the brightness of the blue neb as its a tad overblown and create a more delicate look to that neb.

I've never imaged this one so I don't know how tricky it may be.

Greg.

[Paul Haese]

Thanks guys.

Originally Posted by strongmanmike

The big one on your web site looks ok.

It's quite a good image really.. just not an attractive field I recon

One for the 12" RC on a night of good seeing perhaps?

Mike

Yes perhaps it would look similar to Kens image here. Which he did with a vastly larger scope.

Originally Posted by gregbradley

Kind of an odd image Paul. Does it come up in HaLRGB or is that neb mainly O111? Perhaps O111LRGB might suit it better?

The neb part looks too bright to me with the very faint browny dust background very slight but the blue stars are a detraction plus a lot have filter halos around them. So the overall look to the image is blue everything.

I'd suggest ditching the blue stars and getting the RGB stars in place, perhaps tone down the brightness of the blue neb as its a tad overblown and create a more delicate look to that neb.

I've never imaged this one so I don't know how tricky it may be.

Greg.

This is one really hard image. Ha shows lots of nebulosity, and OIII shows similar detail. When I processed the HaRGB it was nearly monochromatic and not really attractive. I would imagine that the OIIIRGB might be the same. However I will give it a try and see how that pans out.

The brightness is how this image looks even in Ken's image so I can't have that too far wrong. Maybe mine is a little more Cyan than his.

Star colour is certainly a valid point and this is a blend of both RGB and the Ha OIII SII stars.

Yes there are star halos but only around 25 of them are what I consider noticable.

Yes it is an odd image but it is an odd target too.

[Paul Haese]

I think I have dealt with the blue stars and it looks more like a traditional star field albeit an orangey looking Ha? Dreaded salmon perhaps. Thoughts?

[gregbradley]

I like this version better Paul. More of a range of colour and that makes it more interesting.

Greg.

[Martin Pugh]

Paul

I agree with Peter's earlier comment regarding the star colour leading towards cyan...I guess that is attributable to the OIII?

But your repro above has taken care of that. I would suggest you take your background and stars of the repro, and use the nebula from your first attempt. That would be a rather nice image.

cheers
Martin

[Paul Haese]

Thanks Martin I will take you up on that.