Go Back   IceInSpace > Equipment > Software and Computers
Register FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
  #1  
Old 28-03-2006, 08:52 PM
Starcrazzy
Registered User

Starcrazzy is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: wollongong
Posts: 300
Can someone talk guideing??

Hi,
I have been attempting to counter drift in RA on my eq5 for astrophotography..So far i havn't had any success..I have been useing an 80 mm short tube refractor but i think it musn't have a long enough f ratio or something..Does the f ratio of the guidescope matter??What sort of scopes are good for guideing??and how do you normally mount them to the main tube, in my case an 8" newt??i have been useing an old flash mount that i fashioned onto the body of the newt...
any tips would be greatly appreciated..
cheers
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 29-03-2006, 12:17 AM
[1ponders]'s Avatar
[1ponders] (Paul)
Retired, damn no pension

[1ponders] is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Obi Obi, Qld
Posts: 18,778
Hi SC

If you are autoguiding with a webcam or dedicated guiding camera then the short tube should be long enough. manual guiding is a different story though. You're guidescope should be at least the same focal length as your imaging scope. Preferably 1.5 times at least.

For example: If your imaging scope is 2000mm FL and you are imaging with a 35mm camera. That will give a magnification of around 40 times. If you are using a DSLR then the mag is around 65 times. But if you are using a DSI then the magnification is around 200 times (I don't know the chip size off hand so approximating with a toUcam).

Now if you are using a short tube at say 500mm then using a 12mm reticle (you are using a reticle?) will give you a magnification of just over 40 times. You may get away with that for the 35 mm camera if you are good but it's likely you will get blurry stars. Your eyes just can't pick up those small movements early enough to prevent some sort of movement occuring across the film. If you keep the images standard size you probably wouldn't notice them, but blow them up and that would be a different story.

Now let's put a 2X barlow in the system. That's about 85 times mag. You should, theoretically be able to guide a DSLR now (the 35mm should be apiece of cake as you now have more than twice the magnification. Really it's focal length that is important here, but were cheating a bit by using magnification). But you still can't effectively manually guide for long exposures with the DSI. So what to do? Add another barlow, a 2.5X barlow. That brings us up to a focal length of 2500mm and our magnification up to 208X which should be just long enough. Just!

Now as I said talking about magnification isn't technically true. What we are trying to do is improve our ability to identify movement over arcsecond distances. To do that you need to increase focal length and resolution (aperture), but talking about magnification helps to get the point across.

So now what do you do. Well you could go out and buy two barlows, which would be expensive, plus you would be pushing the resolution limit of your little scope anyway so your accuracy is going to be reduce. You could buy a longer FL scope with a wider aperture along with a couple of barlows. Again possibly expensive. Or you could experiment with your DSI and your short tube with one barlow and see how long you can go before you start to see star trails. See if you can find someone with a 9mm reticle and borrow it for a while and see if that improves.

The other thing to check, from a purely mechanical point of view, is how bad is your backlash in dec and RA and how responsive are your drives.

Or just so you can start getting trail free images (job satisfaction factor) you could image through your Short tube, comvert to grey scale (to negate most of the chromtic aberation. Grey scale looks pretty good when done well, with good contrast and sharp images) and guide through your 8" Saxon. It would be a hell of a lot easier, plus you would get practice without the stress levels.

Sorry about the story but I felt it was important you got a good picture of what could be happening. And it is only that, one possibility. But it's one you can work with immediately and see if your results improve. It costs you nothing and it will eliminate one possible source of trailing: too short a guidescope.

Now if you find errors in here, so be it. I'm like a good reporter, just because I write it doesn't mean I have to read it

Good luck

BTW what do you mean by a "flash Mount" If your guidescope isn't held firmly then you could go mad trying to guide because of movement of the guidescope. See if you can come up with some sort of ring system to hold your scope. Lack of flexure in your imaging train is crucial to achieve good guiding.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 29-03-2006, 10:13 AM
Starcrazzy
Registered User

Starcrazzy is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: wollongong
Posts: 300
Thanx for the detailed answer ponders..your a great help..I will try useing a barlow in the guidescope, but i have only been able to get an image with the dslr by useing eyepiece projection..i have started by useing the 25 mm eyepiece in the t addapter...i figured this would give me the lowest mag and therefor show the least amount of drift...I have an ebay 700 mm newt (76 mm) that i may try and attach somehow...i think this scope would be better due to its higher f ratio...its just the attachment method that is the problem...if i affix it i still need to be able to adjust its direction don't i??But with the 2x barlow that will give me a focal length of 1400mm, wich is longer then the sxon with the 25 mm eyepiece...i am getting a 3x barlow soon wich may help me further...thanx again for your help ponders....you have helped me in the past aswell with other matters and i greatly appreciate you sharing your loads of knowledge with me...cheers
Andrew Campbell
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 29-03-2006, 10:22 AM
[1ponders]'s Avatar
[1ponders] (Paul)
Retired, damn no pension

[1ponders] is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Obi Obi, Qld
Posts: 18,778
Np Andrew. See if someone can give you some info on how to attach your DSLR to the scope. I use an SCT so the attachment is different. You will get much more satisfying images if you are able to do prime focus rather than eyepiece projection, which will limit you to basically moon shots and maybe some planetary, though you'd be bette off using the DSI for them rather than a DSLR.

Do you have a reticle?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 29-03-2006, 10:33 AM
Starcrazzy
Registered User

Starcrazzy is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: wollongong
Posts: 300
Yes, i have a meade 10 mm illuminated reticle..I have managed to get the dslr to prime focus but i need the barlow to focus..but what would the prime focus mag be do you think??seems to be alot higher...If i could manage to guide for exposures of say 1.5 minutes to 2 minutes i would be happy as larry...Even the dsi at that sort of exp time would yield great images (see ezystyles work of late)..My eq mount has severe backlash in one direction on RA..but fortunatly it isn't in the direction i need to correct the drift..Could inbalance play a part in the drift??
cheers again ponders..
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 29-03-2006, 07:31 PM
JohnG's Avatar
JohnG (John)
Looking Down From Above

JohnG is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Cootamundra, NSW
Posts: 1,711
Hi Starcrazy

Paul has given you some good advice there, a couple of other things you might want to take into consideration. You do need to mount your guidescope on a solid base and preferably with guidescope rings so you can adjust as necessary to get a good guide star. I note that you have an LPI, if the EQ-5 mount has an ST-4 style autoguder port, you can auto guide through there, there are free program available for that ie GuideDog and GuideMaster, it is not a difficult setup. You say you have some drift in RA, try placing the couterweight so it is slightly holding against the worm, that way it is driving against it, having the scope perfectly balanced can cause some occilation which will end up as you chasing the star back and forth. PE (Periodic Error) could also be a problem as well, that is a mechanical issue.

I guide without any problems using a ZS-80 at f/6 using both an LPI and ST-4, my main scope is f/9 although my mount is a G-11, I successfully used this setup on a GM-8 which, as I understand, similar to the EQ-5 in capacity. Most importantly, don't overload the mount, you should never exceed 2/3 the capacity.

Keep trying, you will get it.

JohnG
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 29-03-2006, 11:02 PM
allan gould's Avatar
allan gould
Registered User

allan gould is offline
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 4,485
there is also available techniques to modify the handcontroller of the eq5 to allow autoguiding via st4 commands. See http://www.store.shoestringastronomy.com/eq_mod.pdf
for the directions. Shoestring astronomy also sells a // port adapter to take the commands for guiding.
Hope this helps. Dont forget there are many people here to help so dont forget to ask any questions
Regards, Allan
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +10. The time is now 08:09 PM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.8.7 | Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Advertisement
Bintel
Advertisement
Astrophotography Prize
Advertisement