Go Back   IceInSpace > Beginners Start Here > Beginners Astrophotography
Register FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
  #1  
Old 04-10-2011, 06:32 PM
benklerk
Registered User

benklerk is offline
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Katoomba
Posts: 297
need help to choose a CCD camera

HI

I want to get into astrophotography. I have a meade 8" ACF and a skywatcher NEQ6 Pro goto mount.

I have been looking at camera in the range of $2000 to $5000 I can found a few cameras. What do you thing of these.

Orion Parsec 8300
FLI Microline 8300
QSI 583WS
and possible the SBIG ST1000-C2 on the ATS website.

are there anymore that I have missed?

Also what is better Color or mono.
If I go with mono I know that I need to get color filters. How can I stack them to get a color picture. Can't I do the same on a color CCD chip.

For filters which brand is better, Astronomik or Baader.

I also live in Katoomba about 2 hrs away from Sydney, so I do have good skies.

Ben
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-10-2011, 07:49 PM
rcheshire's Avatar
rcheshire (Rowland)
Registered User

rcheshire is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Geelong
Posts: 2,617
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...04&postcount=3

Have a look at starklab (Google) articles also.

Moravian - KAI 8300 sensor

Apogee - KAI 8050 sensor

Last edited by rcheshire; 06-10-2011 at 09:25 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-10-2011, 09:56 AM
Poita (Peter)
Registered User

Poita is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: NSW Country
Posts: 3,586
In theory the Mono camera gives you more resolution as you get the full resolution of the chip for Red Green and Blue, whereas the colour chips use a bayer pattern typically and the resolution is divided up between the colours.
Mono ones also tend to be a little more light sensitive, so shorter subs can be taken, but then again, you have to do one for each channel, so you don't save any time overall.
There is plenty of software available to take the RGB channels and merge them into a single colour image.

The pain is if your seeing is variable, you may get a good red capture but then seeing goes before you can get the Green and the Blue.
A One Shot Colour (OSC) camera is a bit less sensitive, but if you get the shot, you get the shot. You also have less processing time later and don't have to mess with filters and so on.

What are you planning on imaging? Deep sky or planetary?
I'd recommend getting a cheap camera first before spending that sort of dollars, AP is really, really tricky and you can learn all of the processing etc. and get great images to begin with by only spending a few hundred dollars on a 2nd hand camera.
You then can get nearly all of that money back by selling the camera on again when you buy your 'big' camera.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-10-2011, 10:24 AM
benklerk
Registered User

benklerk is offline
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Katoomba
Posts: 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poita View Post

What are you planning on imaging? Deep sky or planetary?
I am planning on doing deep sky and comets. So by looking about a good cheap CCD camera is a Orion Parsec 8300M for about $2200. The good thing is a already have color filters. What are your thoughts on this CCD camera.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-10-2011, 04:40 AM
gregbradley's Avatar
gregbradley
Registered User

gregbradley is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 18,185
Quote:
Originally Posted by benklerk View Post
HI

I want to get into astrophotography. I have a meade 8" ACF and a skywatcher NEQ6 Pro goto mount.

I have been looking at camera in the range of $2000 to $5000 I can found a few cameras. What do you thing of these.

Orion Parsec 8300
FLI Microline 8300
QSI 583WS
and possible the SBIG ST1000-C2 on the ATS website.

are there anymore that I have missed?

Also what is better Color or mono.
If I go with mono I know that I need to get color filters. How can I stack them to get a color picture. Can't I do the same on a color CCD chip.

For filters which brand is better, Astronomik or Baader.

I also live in Katoomba about 2 hrs away from Sydney, so I do have good skies.

Ben

That's a nice problem you have chosing high end equipment.

I have had several CCD cameras. Most of them are very good really and it comes down to features.

The Orion is the odd one in that list. Its out of place as its a bit like saying BMW, Mercedes, Hyundai.

FLI is often considered the absolute best. I have 2 FLI cameras and I can say they are the best I have used and I intend to continue to use FLI cameras in the future. The most important feature of a CCD using the same Kodak or Sony chip is cooling. Powerful cooling solves almost all problems. Next is quality of electronics. I found out electronics of cameras are not the same brand to brand. Some are quite noisy even with the same chip. Then there is CCD chamber. FLI, Apogee have sealed argon filled chambers. They do not frost ever, they are stable.
SBIG cameras for example do not and need a desiccant plug to keep the chamber dry enough so the chip does not frost over when cooled. This works but needs to be serviced every now and then. My first SBIG camera though - an ST2000XM it did not work well and the desiccant needed to be baked often which was a pain.

QSI are popular as they offer a model with built in filter wheel and offaxis guider. Best to ask those using them on this site how they like it. I believe - as with any offaixs guider, the guider can be tricky to setup and I would check on this point about how easy or hard it is to use. I use a separate MMOAG offaxis guider but its another part, needs its own adapter etc etc a built in one would be really nice.

Orion are cheap and have their place in the market. They are not known for high end gear though as they are the Kmart of the astroworld. Quality may be an issue but they probably represent value for money.

Should that be SBIG STL11000 Class 2?

Topheart is selling one in the classifieds here for $4000. That's an amazing price and better than any of the above. The STL11 is a super well performing camera of proven performance. Other versions of it have improvements over it but as a complete camera with a built in filter wheel and self guiding for LRGB images it is hard to beat. Also it is a much larger chip so you will need a scope that can handle a chip that big. I think the 8 inch Meade ACF can handle it (best to check though).

I would pick a KAI chipped 11002 camera over a KAF8300 chipped camera. You are basically comparing APS sized (8300 is smaller actually) to full frame. Size matters.

Greg.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-10-2011, 01:02 PM
benklerk
Registered User

benklerk is offline
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Katoomba
Posts: 297
I have chosen it down to 2 cameras.
The QSI 583WSG and the FLI Microline 8300. Both are around the $4500 mark. What are your thoughts on these two ccds.

By looking on the net the FLI looks like it makes very good pics compared to the QSI.

I have 1.25' filters can they both work on ether camera?

Is it a good idea two get into narrow-band filters also what is the difference between a 7nm and a 12nm h-alpha filter, what more can you see?

Do I need to get a auto guider or not? I have a sky-watcher NEQ6 Pro

Last edited by benklerk; 06-10-2011 at 01:08 PM. Reason: to add more info
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-10-2011, 01:09 PM
Poita (Peter)
Registered User

Poita is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: NSW Country
Posts: 3,586
Did you consider the STL11K here?
http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...ad.php?t=80334

Quote:
Originally Posted by benklerk View Post
I have chosen it down to 2 cameras.
The QSI 583WSG and the FLI Microline 8300. Both are around the $4500 mark. What are your thoughts on these two ccds.

By looking on the net the FLI looks like it makes very good pics compared to the QSI.

I have 1.25' filters can they both work on ether camera?

Is it a good idea two get into narrow-band filters also what is the difference between a 7nm and a 12nm h-alpha filter, what more can you see?

Do I need to get a auto guider or not? I have a sky-watcher NEQ6 Pro
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-10-2011, 01:16 PM
benklerk
Registered User

benklerk is offline
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Katoomba
Posts: 297
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poita View Post
I did, but I am a bit hazy on it. I would like warranty just in case something happens to it and a lose 4000.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-10-2011, 07:38 PM
gregbradley's Avatar
gregbradley
Registered User

gregbradley is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 18,185
In my opinion the FLI ML8300 is the king of CCD cameras for 8300 chip.

It cools harder and gets there fast, faster downloads, an excellent shutter, very low noise, low noise electronics, sealed CCD chamber, guaranteed squareness of the chip, good customer service plus FLI sponsored the first Australian Advanced Imaging Conference this year at the Gold Coast.

You'd have to confirm with FLI about whether 1.25 inch filters will work with it. Perhaps not. They do with the QSI583.

Yes you will need an autoguiding setup with the FLI. The QSI model with the built in filter wheel and offaxis guider only need a guide camera. Ask Paul Haese about the offaxis guider if it is easy to use or not. I think its fine but like any offaixs guider a bit tricky to setup.

QSI683WSG is a closer competitor to the FLI Microline 8300.

FLI also offers the option of no cover slip on the CCD (I don't think QSI do but check on that point). This means a little bit extra sensitivity and gets rid of slight minor halos around bright stars caused by reflections.

My FLI Microline 8300 cools to -40C almost all year round (no other cam will except Apogee Alta U8300 with D09 body upgrade), has virtually no noise at that cooling level, its rugged, connects instantly to the computer, has an onboard memory buffer, downloads a full image in 1 second, man whats not to love about this camera!

Its the Rolls Royce baby!

QSI 683 would be very convenient as one package (filter wheel, smaller filters that you have will work except on fast F ratio scopes and a built in offaxis guider). Faster downloads although not as fast as the FLI. QSI is closing the gap for sure.

I mean really bottomline, you are going to be happy with either. The FLI is just a pleasure to use.

Greg.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +10. The time is now 05:28 AM.

Powered by vBulletin Version 3.8.7 | Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Advertisement
Astrophotography Prize
Advertisement
Bintel
Advertisement