More Anti Science Hysteria

[sjastro]

Given the recent issues in the Relativity thread......
Nothing compares to this

It makes you wonder how people develop such attitudes.

http://www.youstupidrelativist.com/

Enjoy

Steven

[Zaps]

"Thank you for visiting my homepage! Love, Fritz Zwicky."

[CraigS]

I'm not absolutely certain, (so this post maybe a little hasty), but I think a poster from a certain site who frequently quotes Gaede, was banned as a result of disclosing Gaede's background. Ie: Gaede being respected by the inhabitants of that particular realm.

I'll have to check my facts further .. will get back ..

Cheers

[mithrandir (Andrew)]

The pixies a lot of nut cases are off with would not want anything to do with this loony.

[sjastro]

Originally Posted by CraigS

I'm not absolutely certain, (so this post maybe a little hasty), but I think a poster from a certain site who frequently quotes Gaede, was banned as a result of disclosing Gaede's background. Ie: Gaede being respected by the inhabitants of that particular realm.

I'll have to check my facts further .. will get back ..

Cheers

I think I know what you mean.
Imagine having such criminal ideas.

Regards

Steven

[sjastro]

Here we go Bill Gaude's "resume".

Thirty three months in jail.
I'm impressed.:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Gaede

[avandonk]

I do not find it strange at all. It is called being delusional. Ramachandran a neurophysiologist had a patient who believed he was dead! No logical argument would change his mind. This chap could very quickly see that other delusional people were delusional but could not see that his assertion that he was dead was at all a problem. Reminds me of all the deniers I have met.

I personally know someone who makes elaborate 'writings' in technicolour and claims it is the word of god. It looks more like gibberish than the rantings of this bloke. Although it is all gibberish from both.

The scary thing is this delusional twit is calling for the death of all people that disagree with him. This is nasty stuff and I am sure illegal in some jurisdictions.

The human mind is a wondrous thing but when it goes wrong it does so spectacularly.

I fear the ones that are not obvious!

Bert

[sjastro]

Originally Posted by avandonk

I do not find it strange at all. It is called being delusional. Ramachandran a neurophysiologist had a patient who believed he was dead! No logical argument would change his mind. This chap could very quickly see that other delusional people were delusional but could not see that his assertion that he was dead was at all a problem. Reminds me of all the deniers I have met.

I personally know someone who makes elaborate 'writings' in technicolour and claims it is the word of god. It looks more like gibberish than the rantings of this bloke. Although it is all gibberish from both.

The scary thing is this delusional twit is calling for the death of all people that disagree with him. This is nasty stuff and I am sure illegal in some jurisdictions.

The human mind is a wondrous thing but when it goes wrong it does so spectacularly.

I fear the ones that are not obvious!

Bert

Bert,

Going by the Wikipedia article a court of law didn't find him crazy which is even more of a concern.

Regards

Steven

[avandonk]

I may have said this before Steven but we had three sayings at CSIRO

If you are doubting your own sanity you are doing fine!

If you remembered what you forgot then you are still fine!

I can't remember the third......

UUUUHHH


Bert

[renormalised (Carl)]

That site is the work of a lunatic. Not only delusional, but completely bereft of any sense of reality. The fact that people like this can get away with what they do and make it public on the net is criminal in itself. There's always something to say for free speech and the right to be heard, but when something as twisted as this is allowed to get away with what it does, then you have to wonder about the ethics of the people who allow it to be published...let alone the completely sick joke that site really is. A sick joke, but one that's potentially dangerous.

[avandonk]

I find every religious site just as ridiculous. As long as they do not advocate death to non believers I do not care. They can get lost in their delusions.

If this upsets any religious people here then I hope you think for yourselves for once. Do not be led by idiots passing themselves off as men of god.

I have great respect for real people who help their fellow man even if they are deluded.

I have no respect for people who exploit their fellow man even under the guise of some sort of organised religion.

If I have offended anyone I am not sorry!

When morons who think that their god absolves them from any rational criticism from non believers such as me they are even more deluded than I thought.

Yes that is correct complain!

I demand equal rights for my beliefs! Is that not what you devil dodgers demand!

Bert

[xelasnave]

There are heaps of nutter sites I try to visit all I can just to see how others go on...there is a flat world site did you know.

But this chap under discussion is a little nasty in his approach.
Even if someone disagrees should not mean they should not respect the other view point. I found the lack of respect unfortunate.
I do think you have to filter out so much it is probably not worth really worrying about such folk.
alex

[bojan]

Originally Posted by sjastro

http://www.youstupidrelativist.com/

Enjoy

Steven

Perhaps he is only joking ??
Nope.. he seem to be serious... in his total anti-everything and anything.
Or he is just an extreme example of Hoagland-type people, trying to cash-in something from niche markets ? That would explain a lot..

Well guys, this is the era of internet. Plain and simple.
Exhibitionists like that existed before (I used to know couple of them myself) but because of internet, today they have a lot easier job to get their 1 second of "fame". And it will be even easier for them in the future.
BUT - is also easier for "straight" scientist to obtain the same (if not much wider) exposure.
We should not worry about those clowns, really.

[xelasnave]

I have said many times as a joke that if one were to make money in science ones chances are greatly enhanced as a crack pot because you introduce entertainment ... even presenting legitimate science takes on an entertainment form in my view...also to be noticed folk often use confrontation ..well here we are drawn in by his confrontation and crackpot projection but he is wining because we have observed him and now is part of our universe...I think I will go to the flat earth site to observe humans ...
alex

[CraigS]

Originally Posted by bojan

We should not worry about those clowns, really.

Huh ?

Cheers

[bojan]

Originally Posted by CraigS

Huh ?

Cheers

Because it is obvous he is a clown, and as Alex mentioned, he is after exposure and cash-in.

However, what can you do about this?
If you put up a fight, accepting his style, the result is pretty obvious - he will win because he is way better in business of insulting people than you will ever be ( remember - he is a professional in this field and you are not).

What you can do is to ignore him (and deny him acknowledgement of his existence, something he is desperately seeking), and to go on with what you already do: patient education of people and popularisation of science, step by step, in your free time (because you are not professional in this field either).

Other alternative is a ban.
But legal interference into such things eventually leads to corruption (just remember extreme examples - Stalin and his mate, Lysenko (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trofim_Lysenko).. Or Hitler and Einstein, as the opposite example.
BTW, please note, my reference to soviet (and/or nazy) methods in dealing with things like this one is not coincidental.

And, people who are deceived by him are already lost, anyway... in many ways :-)

So, don't worry, be happy....

[multiweb (Marc)]

His website is not even worth looking at. How can you have any credibility with such a layout? If it's a representation of how his mind works then there's nothing to worry about.

[CraigS]

Hmm .. the problem I see created by this guy, which is real, (from personal evidence I have gathered in my own various travels), is that there are many folk who relate closely to his style. They appear to perceive that his over-the-top sarcasm stems from the same frustrations they have encountered in their quest to understand science topics such as the two slit experiment. (Which I don't believe is actually the motivation behind Gaede's deceptions).

His rapid-fire obfuscation, (a word I learnt from EU followers, who excel in it), is extraordinarily convincing, as it resonates perfectly with their own learning frustrations and its easy for them to consume. Gaede is quoted numerous times in defence of pseudoscience, usually closely followed by Mathis (another sleezebag).

Originally Posted by bojan

And, people who are deceived by him are already lost, anyway…

Many of these folk are young, and their number is growing rapidly !

In terms of priorities, I really do think that the Gaede's and Mathis' of this world, are the truly big problems, and I really feel that the troubles we have here (which we seem to beat eachother up about), are chicken-feed when compared with the havoc raised by these types.

We should direct our energies towards real debunking, rather than being diverted by the ego-tripping trolling behaviours, occasionally observable here, and merely designed to exploit personality facets which we all put on display here ... out of our own sense of trust in the IIS community.

If we get snarly with them, think of the many positive contributions the 'snarly' types are making here .. on a daily basis. This is the counter-balance we should think about before revolting against those making use of defensive tactics, occasionally being used here.

My 2 cents worth.

Cheers

[bojan]

Originally Posted by CraigS

If we get snarly with them, think of the many positive contributions the 'snarly' types are making here .. on a daily basis.

If we adopt his style, nothing will be achieved - except high adrenalin level and blood pressure - and giving him and his followers a satisfaction of type "See, they are agro.. let's beat them a bit more, it works, they have no other arguments".
This is typical "Us - Them" situation. The only science involved in this type of argument is psychology and I think they are far better in this business than any of us are.

The only way to beat this is careful, systematic, detailed argument, supported with evidence.
Sometimes even this won't work with some people, but we should NEVER give up.

In my opinion, the root of the problem is western style of education ("Let kids be happy, don't push them... ").
This is and was a VERY wrong approach

Kids don't know what they will need in life - so the education system (and I don't mean private schools - the bigger nonsense I never ever saw in my whole life) MUST provide the basics.
If it doesn't (and it didn't, which is obvious from what this website and from what I am also seeing every day), we will have even worse situation in the future.

Science to the people

[CraigS]

Originally Posted by bojan

If we adopt his style, nothing will be achieved - except high adrenalin level and blood pressure - and giving him and his followers a satisfaction of type "See, they are agro.. let's beat them a bit more, it works, they have no other arguments".
This is typical "Us - Them" situation. The only science involved in this type of argument is psychology and I think they are far better in this business than any of us are.

The only way to beat this is careful, systematic, detailed argument, supported with evidence.
Sometimes even this won't work with some people, but we should NEVER give up.

I look forward to your interjections in such future situations, bojan. .. experience the force, Luke !

A big part of me whole-heartedly agrees with you about this .. my only points are: (i) the priorities in the overall scheme of things and; (ii) demoralising backlashes from bunches of lurkers who only choose to deconstructively 'contribute' when the going gets tough, and without due consideration of the bigger issues at stake.

Originally Posted by bojan

… the education system (and I don't mean private schools - the bigger nonsense I never ever saw in my whole life)

… a goody … for a General Chat thread !

Cheers