The "feedback" forum doesn't get much traffic, so I've started this thread here to gauge the support for a sketching subforum, similar to the subforum "Observational Reports".
My suggestion is to give the sketching threads a dedicated place for easier reference. It is not intended to take away from the Obs. and Visual forum, rather to enhance it. Pretty much like the various imaging forums that currently exist, but just in one spot within the Obs. and Visual Forum.
I'm am hoping to foster a further spirit of participation within this oldest of the "astro imaging" arts.
The recent resurgence in sketching within this site has had a huge impact on the way I'm now involved in this hobby: I've put pencil to paper for the first time in years, its led me to discover a most extraordinary Australian exponent of this art form, and inspired me to write an article on the subject (my first ever article!).
I would love to see a subforum that fosters encouragement, technique discussion, sketching get-togethers, maybe a gallery, Lunar, planetary, Solar, DSO... . The skies the limit.
I really would like your support for this. The imaging boys and girls have their several forums. It would be nice to see the visual affectionados have a little place where they can also showcase their skills and enthusiasm at the eyepiece. A place that will enrich participants, and IIS overall.
Mental.
PS, I've altered my original post here as the moderators see this forum as the best place to conduct this call for support.
Last edited by mental4astro; 12-03-2011 at 07:21 PM.
Nice idea Alex, although I don't sketch, due to failing stick figures at school, I always enjoy seeing the results of thoes who do. For visual guys, sketching provides a much closer idea of what we see in the eyepiece than imaging.
Malcom, I suspect you can write with a pencil, then you might like to look at trying open star clusters- they are nothing more than a series of 'full stops'!
The Jewel box is a nice, tight group to start with! It's a delicious prospect through your scope.
The "feedback" forum doesn't get much traffic, so I've started this thread here to gauge the support for a sketching subforum, similar to the subforum "Observasional Reports".
My suggestion is to give the sketching threads a dedicated place for easier reference. It is not intended to take away from the Obs. and Visual forum, rather to enhance it. Pretty much like the various imageing forums that currently exist, but just in one spot within the Obs. and Visual Forum.
I'm am hoping to foster a further spirit of participation within this oldest of "astro imageing" arts.
The recent resurgence in sketching within this site has had a huge impact on the way I'm now involved in this hobby: I've put pencil to paper for the first time in years, its led me to discover a most extraordinary Australian exponent of this art form, and inspired me to write an article on the subject (my first ever article!).
I would love to see a subforum that fosters encouragement, technique discussion, sketching get-togethers, maybe a gallery, Lunar, planetary, Solar, DSO... . The skies the limit.
I really would like your support for this. The imaging boys and girls have there several forums. It would be nice to see the visual affectionados have a little place where they can also showcase their skills and enthusiasm at the eyepiece. A place that will enrich participants, and IIS overall.
Mental.
PS, I've altered my original post here as the moderators see this forum as the best place to conduct this call for support.
THIS is now the "call to arms" thread. Your support, or not, should now be placed in this thread.
If the support is there, then we'll look at making an application to the mods.
Alex.
thanks mate
i'm very keen not confident of drawing but i'd love to have a go!!!
iv'e some books with tips on how to sketch i'll have to find them
with my new scope sorted out i'm keen to find some dso's and sketch them
While I think it'll be fantastic to have a sub section dedicated to sketching, I'm concerned that obs reports which include sketches will get broken up too much, i.e. obs report with sketch put in the sketch forum. I think all obs reports should stay in one place. Perhaps a link in the obs report for the sketch in the sketch forum?
Do you plan on putting the accumulated info on sketching tips which is lost somewhere in a thread as a "sticky" so it can be found for quick reference?
Many here already sketch and contribute, there is a thread (somewhere) which was dedicated to sketching tips contributions as well, and seeing all the sketches together will enable us to better learn and get ideas and further enhance our experience at the eyepiece. So I'm all for it, but my concerns above remain, providing they are addressed.
It's about time we visual observers got catered for a bit better. The observation reports sub forum has been pumping with regular activity for quite some time now, which adds weight to the case of further catering requirements. The time has come to service our needs better Mr Moderators please.
I'm not one for too many sub forums as it can be very confusing to navigate, so I think Mike has done one heck of a brilliant job by keeping the menu very tidy and choosing what is justifiably important. However, in this instance, I feel this is a justifiable requirement.
Visual astronomy is a very important contribution.
Oops, forgot to add...
To add further weight to the request, you will see in the poll that's currently running that visual observers are out running the imagers!http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...t=72590&page=3
If a contributor feels their sketch is best served in the Obs Reports section, then why not present it there? That is where it should go. But if all you want is to present a recent sketch, and a dedicated section best serves your context, it would be best served in such a section.
Like you said too, "somewhere" there is a thread on sketching tips. If you had no idea there was a following on the topic, you might believe there is no 'pulse' in the artform here on IIS!
And yes, a dedicated place for those sketching threads too! A sticky area for the "how-to", maybe. But, if the section is already about sketching, finding a how-to thread would be a simpler process.
I agree that too many formal and sub forums can be difficult to navigate (look at the cloudy nights site), and Mike and co. do a great job, but like you, I too feel there is further scope for enriching IIS. The site's recent revamp has seen several new formal forums added. I do believe though, there is room and a rich place for an Astronomical Sketching home.
A sub-forum would encourage sketching and as Suzy says could have sticky threads on tips etc to consolidate the knowledge that has been forthcoming. Sticky threads sound a little arachnid...
It gathers all the sketches in one place for future review and inspiration.
It would be an appropriate place for stickies on sketching.
It could even attract new IIS members interested in sketching.
Hey, someone might even get their sketch as IOTW someday , lets take over this forum
There is a core group of people that contribute greatly to the observation reports forum, and some of those with sketches. I guess my concern (like Suzy said) is that threads might get split between the two, or we end up with duplicates as people put them in both (because they contain a report and a sketch), etc.
The number of people who post sketches is still quite small so there's always a concern that the new forum sits idle and empty with no new contributions. I'm pretty sure with Alex's involvement that's unlikely to happen, though.
2. Controlling the number of sub-forums
Like both Suzy and Alex have stated, I definitely don't want a huge number of sub-forums. Too many make it hard to navigate, dilute the content across many sub-forums and makes it harder for people to find the information they're looking for, people get confused about where to post new threads etc.
These concerns are not specific to a sketching sub-forum - it's just part of the criteria I evaluate when looking to add ANY new sub-forum.
Having said that, even niche areas of amateur astronomy (like sketching) deserve a home (like radio astronomy) and sometimes a sub-forum might help to increase the take-up or contributions. This hasn't always happened (like radio astronomy), but the potential is always there.
I'll give this thread a few more days to see what other support or discussions it generates, and then I'll let you guys know.
Well, I'm going to be a naysayer. Most of the sketches we see are posted as adjuncts to obs reports and belong there. If you're sketching as an artform, post it in the imaging sections. That's where they have appeared in the past.
I'm against the on-going splintering of the forum. The 'beginners' sections drive me mad, duplicating other sections of the forum on an arbitrary and ill-defined basis, to the point where I don't bother going there any more. The major prob with these sections is that they drive a wedge between sections of the astro community, and require participants to make a ridiculous judgement as to when they are no longer a 'newbie' (another term that drives me absolutely troppo!). Would there be a beginners sketching sub-sub-forum for those starting out?
I have held off replying to this thread till now to see where it will go
I am not in favour as I see it as another fragmentation of the observation and visual forum.
When we got a separate Observers report within the visual and observers thread I think less people actually logged into it.
It is only the same probably ten visual observers who are regularly posting and I cannot see any benefit in another thread
By all means Highlight the benefits of sketching but keep the forum as a whole not bits and pieces, as sketching is to me just another part of what you wish to do with your observing time.
Cheers
Well, I'm going to be a naysayer. Most of the sketches we see are posted as adjuncts to obs reports and belong there. If you're sketching as an artform, post it in the imaging sections. That's where they have appeared in the past.
This is true - there have been several astronomy sketches in the solar system or deep space imaging forums.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob_K
I'm against the on-going splintering of the forum. The 'beginners' sections drive me mad, duplicating other sections of the forum on an arbitrary and ill-defined basis, to the point where I don't bother going there any more. The major prob with these sections is that they drive a wedge between sections of the astro community, and require participants to make a ridiculous judgement as to when they are no longer a 'newbie' (another term that drives me absolutely troppo!). Would there be a beginners sketching sub-sub-forum for those starting out?
A valid point, and I don't like splintering forums either.
However sometimes it can be very daunting for a beginner to 'enter into' the world of the 'experts' and don't feel comfortable posting their images in the deep space section (for example).
The beginners imaging forum was to allow them to feel comfortable posting there.
I don't necessarily agree that it drives a wedge between the newbies and the 'experienced'. There's no graduation between newbie and 'experienced' - when they feel comfortable they'll post in the other 'non-beginner' sections.
Not a bad idea in theory but IMO only useful for showing off your sketches from obs sessions in the past, from your "archives" so to speak, (not from last nights session for example) as the one issue I see is it might result in duplicate posts and/or fragmented obs reports as people might end up posting the same material both in the obs section and sketch section or seperate their sketches from their reports. This happens on CN often which has both an obs and sketch section. Not only will it potentially fragment the forum, but also create some amount of confusion/inconvenience as posters will post the report in one section and the associated sketches in another section. Generally the obs section as it is provides a good medium for people to post their sketches with their reports in one post that will be seen and appreciated by those interested. The current arrangement IMO is pretty streamlined and works well.
Maybe one idea is making a sticky thread in the obs section entitled "sketches" where people can post their work if they wish and showcase the sketching talent of folks here without fragmentation of the forums or having to navigate through individual threads.
Last edited by pgc hunter; 14-03-2011 at 11:51 AM.
A valid point, and I don't like splintering forums either.
However sometimes it can be very daunting for a beginner to 'enter into' the world of the 'experts' and don't feel comfortable posting their images in the deep space section (for example).
The beginners imaging forum was to allow them to feel comfortable posting there.
I don't necessarily agree that it drives a wedge between the newbies and the 'experienced'. There's no graduation between newbie and 'experienced' - when they feel comfortable they'll post in the other 'non-beginner' sections.
Good points Mike and I do see where you're coming from with the beginners section. More power to you for providing it. My 'observation' was purely personal - if I was just starting out in astronomy, I would dodge forums that seemed to be geared towards an 'apprenticeship' before full participation. But can we somehow get rid of the term newbie?
Most of the sketches we see are posted as adjuncts to obs reports and belong there. If you're sketching as an artform, post it in the imaging sections. That's where they have appeared in the past.
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Yes and no. If you post a sketch, of cause you are going to do a write up with it. But how would you know if the thrill of the contributor isn't the sketch, and the report is the adjunct? With the imaging sections, I haven't seen a sketch there since joining IIS. And with the imaging sections being so rampant, sketches would be lost instantly. That is why they have been posted in the Obs. and Visual forums. I'll go out on a limb and say imagers wouldn't call sketching 'true' imaging. Never have, even in the film days.
I've read many of your obs. reports, and while your sketches are adjuncts, wouldn't it be unfair to call everyones so?
You may argue "do a search", well, why have any forums then?
I don't think duplication is really an issue. Why would you fear this happening to the extent of it becoming a problem? Nor dilution.
Quote:
Originally Posted by astroron
By all means Highlight the benefits of sketching but keep the forum as a whole not bits and pieces, as sketching is to me just another part of what you wish to do with your observing time.
Cheers
Then does the idea of a sticky or two appeal to you, rather than a whole new section?
What the intension of my original idea is to give the niche voice of sketching a more visible face. That is why my suggestion of a sub-forum to the Obs. and Visual forum, like the Obs. Reports does. I don't see it as a threat to what currently exists, but to enhance the offering of IIS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by astroron
I see no need for a separate forum for sketching
This heading by Orestis says it all
Quote Obs Report 7/3/11 + double star sketch
Cheers
Pretty broad brush with one thread title! Actually, this highlights my point. In this thread of Orestis's, you are saying the report is the main point. Do you know if it was HIS intension or the sketch was. Or are you basing your reply on the way the title was phrased with the report mentioned first. Most thread titles begin with this phrasing. Would your opinion on the thread differ if it was titled:
Double star sketch + Obs report 7/3/11 ?
Below is a thread I've posted with a sketch. I can tell you that the "report" wasn't the focus:
You want my honest opinion, I don't read all the observational reports that are posted, but I do all those that carry "sketch" in their title, .
Quote:
Originally Posted by pgc hunter
Maybe one idea is making a sticky thread in the obs section entitled "sketches" where people can post their work if they wish and showcase the sketching talent of folks here without fragmentation of the forums or having to navigate through individual threads.
Susy mentioned this, and I think it is a worthy option. I agree that the amount of sketching contributions is small, the result is that this material then gets lost within the rest of the forums. The intension here is to give a 'home' to this style of work. Somewhere that can house discussion that doesn't get lost within the masses. Even two stickies, one where how-to and technique discussion can be had, the other like a gallery.
Thank you for your discussion and opinions. I value them. Really I do. That is why I've called for discussion.
Last edited by mental4astro; 14-03-2011 at 01:06 PM.
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