Can Astrophotography and the City Coexist?

[Keshdogga (Casey)]

Hey all,

I've been struggling with this question for a while and was wondering if I could share in peoples experiences. Unfortunately it looks like I will have to move down into the heart of Brisbane in order to comfortably attend Uni this year. My problem is that I don't know if my relatively new found love for astrophotography and the idea of living in Brissy can work together.

I suppose my real question is, could I continue this amazing hobby in Brisbane with all the disgusting light pollution of a city?

It wouldn't be so much of an issue if I owned a car but until that day comes I'm really concerned that I'd have to put it on hold.

What do?

[h0ughy (David)]

purchase a CLS CCD 2" filter - it helps bigtime but its not perfect.

[multiweb (Marc)]

Narrowband is another way out. I do a lot of Ha from home.

[Moon (James)]

Not good. It's better to be on the edge of a city rather than right in the center of it all - at least you can point your camera away from the worst light pollution.
Other options aside from filters include the moon and Planets. Forget about widefield timelapse of the milky way :-(
James

[Keshdogga (Casey)]

Originally Posted by h0ughy

purchase a CLS CCD 2" filter - it helps bigtime but its not perfect.

This actually sound perfect Dave! Especially seeing as I own a DSLR. This will actually save me lol. Thanks alot good sir Just checked out Bintel's price https://www.bintelshop.com.au/Product.aspx?ID=8213 $259 sounds great for a filter like this! Might keep my eyes on the classified and see if I can pick one up cheap

Originally Posted by multiweb

Narrowband is another way out. I do a lot of Ha from home.

Sounds very interesting Marc. Would a Ha filter achieve similar results to the CLS CCD filter Dave mentioned? Appologies for my noobieness I'm very unfimiliar with filters.

[Keshdogga (Casey)]

Originally Posted by Moon

Not good. It's better to be on the edge of a city rather than right in the center of it all - at least you can point your camera away from the worst light pollution.
Other options aside from filters include the moon and Planets. Forget about widefield timelapse of the milky way :-(
James

This is what I was affraid of James. Obviously I would have no chance of a widefield but as of now I'm only concerned about DSI's

Also, I use a field flattener http://www.optcorp.com/product.aspx?pid=14109 Again I don't know alot about filters but can you use a 2'' filter with this particular field flattener?

[multiweb (Marc)]

Originally Posted by Keshdogga

Would a Ha filter achieve similar results to the CLS CCD filter Dave mentioned?

The CLS will increase your contrast but will still let a lot of light in. Narrowband filters (Ha, Sii, Oiii, Hbeta, etc...) only let a very narrow and specific band of light in. Ha is good value as you can get results in light polluted environment as well as imaging when the moon is up. There's a lot of info in these forums if you do a quick search for narrowband imaging in the deepsky section.

[RobF (Rob)]

Its true you're right up against it with your signal to noise ratio from the city Casey, but if you have a spot you can set up with half decent horizons, you can still image a lot, especially with a light pollution filter. You have to remember that you'll still learn a heck of a lot about the art of imaging (good setup, alignment, guiding, tracking, software automation). Processing is probaby 50% of the hobby too, so you really appreciate data collected from dark skies if you can calibrate city images and cope with their gradients etc.

Although I try to do really deep objects from dark skys, I feel very uncomfortable setting up remotely if I haven't had a few good sessions in the backyard recently to make sure my gear (and my brain! ) are working spot on.

Looks like you have a modded Canon, so theoretically you should be able to do some NB. Ha definitely worth a go if you can foot the bill.

[ballaratdragons (Ken)]

Don't give up hope Casey.
Some of the nicest Deep Sky Photography comes from skies worse than Brisbane.
Many Americans, Poms, and Europeans live engulfed in light pollution and yet pull out some amazing images.
Then there is Singapore!!!
Singapore is one of the brightest lit skies in the world, and has major air pollution added to it and yet one of our members, Remus, lives smack in the middle of it all with his fellow club members and they obtain stunning images.
The 1st Astronomy Forum in the world was started by Remus in Singapore way back when we were all saying 'what is an online Forum?'. It is still going!!! http://www.singastro.org/index.php
Singapore has a massive Astronomy scene, with enormous memberships.
Just one of them: http://tasos.org.sg/

They don't let a bit of Light Pollution spoil their imaging.

Here is just 1 sample of Remus's work from Singapore skies: http://celestialportraits.com/images...576-3603_N.jpg

His website: http://celestialportraits.com/CP_index.php

Remus spent almost a year imaging from here at our clubsite in Snake Valley, and I often asked him about his imaging from Singapore city. His results are "from lots of Patience".

So there's hope for us all.

Then, if you get so inclined, there is Video Astronomy (that's what I do). Video Astronomy is unaffected by most Light Pollution.

Keep at it Casey

[Keshdogga (Casey)]

Hey guys, thanks for the awesome advice.

Ken that was very reassuring haha Those shots the get from Singapore are just incredible. I don't know if my ED80/HEQ5 will be able to produce images of that magnitude even under nice seeing condictions But the fact that images of such high quality can be produced under mega light polluted sky's astounds me. Brissy doesn't scare me as much as it used too

And Rob you make a great point. It would make the dark skys all the more enticing. I've only had the oppotrunity to get set up and properly image once out at Paul's sanctuary at Coolabine so setting up by myself has been a bit... problematic. Practice practice!

Just another question, If in my situation which would be the prefered filter? The CLS CCD looks alot nicer (to me) because of the price and allowance for colour but the Ha looks like it could produce some brilliant black and white Ha images.

Again, thanks for the answers. Great to get advice from the pro's.

[RobF (Rob)]

I sometimes remark to people that astrophotography is like a house of cards. You carefully lay out a wide foundation (collimation, polar alignment, balance, focus, dew prevention) then the next layer (guiding, Periodic error reduction), then if your lucky you get away with collecting good data with the final top layer (decent exposures, then processing, etc). If you don't concentrate its not too hard to knock it all over and get nothing (just listen to the colourful language on the imaging field at about 8pm any night if you get to Qld Astrofest some time...!)

Ha really needs at least 10-20min exposures, so you want to make sure you love AP and can get all the basics down pat. About $350 in Aus (less from overseas possibly).

A good light pollution filter like the Hutech IDAS LPS is about $250 and allows you to shoot over a few minutes in the city without fogging out too bad.

My suggestion would be having at least half a dozen goes in your new backyard and making sure you can collect decent 2-5 mins subs without too much trouble first, before worrying about filters. If you won't be travelling very often or at all then perhaps the IDAS first. Having said that, the Ha filter will actually filter out the most city light IF you can get the longer exposures (they'll only be mono though of course unless blended with other data).

Confession: I had an IDAS on order before my first DSLR arrived....
(A lot of the earlier stuff in my gallery was done with an unmodded DSLR and IDAS LPS from the 'burbs if that's any use.)

[multiweb (Marc)]

Let's put it this way. You need a lot of rehearsals in your backyard and get your routine in gear. When you can do it with your eyes closed 110% then you take your rig to a dark skies site and stick to your routine, only what you know will work. Don't get creative on the field. RGB from a light polluted backyard is not very rewarding. Ha is. You can still get a decent result from home. Then when you're ready for the big gig. Take your rig to a remote site on a clear new moon week-end (winning Lotto's more like it right now ) and you'll kick a$$.

[RobF (Rob)]

(you should take a peek at some of the wonderful Ha shots in Marc's gallery Casey to see what's possible if you are able to get it all to work....)

[Keshdogga (Casey)]

Originally Posted by RobF

I sometimes remark to people that astrophotography is like a house of cards. You carefully lay out a wide foundation (collimation, polar alignment, balance, focus, dew prevention) then the next layer (guiding, Periodic error reduction), then if your lucky you get away with collecting good data with the final top layer (decent exposures, then processing, etc). If you don't concentrate its not too hard to knock it all over and get nothing

Seems like very fair analogy there.

Originally Posted by RobF

(just listen to the colourful language on the imaging field at about 8pm any night if you get to Qld Astrofest some time...!)

can't wait to get there next time.

Originally Posted by RobF

Ha really needs at least 10-20min exposures, so you want to make sure you love AP and can get all the basics down pat. About $350 in Aus (less from overseas possibly).

That would be great if I could get a Ha filter for $350. 10-20 minute exposures couldn't be too hard with a good polar alignment and autoguiding right?

Originally Posted by RobF

A good light pollution filter like the Hutech IDAS LPS is about $250 and allows you to shoot over a few minutes in the city without fogging out too bad.

Uhh oh I've never hear the term fogging out before. I always thought a longer exposure reduced the S/N ratio? Or are we not talking about noise here and just blatantly refering to light being diffracted into the OTA? Edit: This sounded stupid whe i read it again haha. I suppose I just wanted to ask what 'fogging out' was without explaining to myself what noise is

Originally Posted by RobF

My suggestion would be having at least half a dozen goes in your new backyard and making sure you can collect decent 2-5 mins subs without too much trouble first, before worrying about filters. If you won't be travelling very often or at all then perhaps the IDAS first. Having said that, the Ha filter will actually filter out the most city light IF you can get the longer exposures (they'll only be mono though of course unless blended with other data).

I doubt I'd be travelling alot once I move. Well at least not alot with my imaging setup (probably will get annoying carrying 4 cases full of gear around on a train ).

Originally Posted by multiweb

Let's put it this way. You need a lot of rehearsals in your backyard and get your routine in gear. When you can do it with your eyes closed 110% then you take your rig to a dark skies site and stick to your routine, only what you know will work. Don't get creative on the field. RGB from a light polluted backyard is not very rewarding. Ha is. You can still get a decent result from home. Then when you're ready for the big gig. Take your rig to a remote site on a clear new moon week-end (winning Lotto's more like it right now ) and you'll kick a$$.

Sounds like a great plan Marc. You seem to be strongly recomending this Ha filter (and no wonder your pics are just amazing! ). How much would it cost me for a Ha filter? I've looked up a 6nm filter by Astronomik http://www.astronomik.com/en/astrono...nm_filter.html and it's looks like it's translating to about $420. I'm not sure if this one: Mounted filter in 2" cell is the one to look at. Maybe you could refer me to another website But I was wondering, when you say RBG isn't very rewarding from a light polluted backyard is that assuming no filter? Or is it comparing a light pollution filter to a Ha filter?

I did have a look at your website and duddeee... that's an absolutely fantastic set of pictures you have there Wish i had the time to comment on each one!

Again, thanks to all for the words of widsom

[allan gould]

I thought that imaging from the city would be a waste of time. With a DSLR it is.
I can not do more than a 30 sec image with my modded 20D here in Brisbane (4.5km from CBD), a 60 sec shot looks like it was shot through a Fanta bottle.
However I have been remarkably surprised that when shooting with my QHY8 or QSI to the North, North east, or north west I can easily do 15 min subs without appreciable effects. That is also doable with a DSI II pro.
Have a look at some of my shots and Peter_4059 with QHY8 and DSIs.
Neither of use use light pollution filters or any other aid.
Ive done some narrow band but leaving it for when the clouds disappear ie some time in the next few months

[multiweb (Marc)]

Thanks mate.

Originally Posted by Keshdogga

How much would it cost me for a Ha filter? I've looked up a 6nm filter by Astronomik http://www.astronomik.com/en/astrono...nm_filter.html and it's looks like it's translating to about $420. I'm not sure if this one: Mounted filter in 2" cell is the one to look at. Maybe you could refer me to another website

I use baader filters. You could try here. That's where I got all my filters from. They cost, but you keep them and use them all the time. Build over time one by one.

Originally Posted by Keshdogga

But I was wondering, when you say RGB isn't very rewarding from a light polluted backyard is that assuming no filter? Or is it comparing a light pollution filter to a Ha filter?

A LP filter and proper calibration will get you close to a decent shot but not even close to any RGB you'll do from a dark site. So IMHO a waste of time. Ha will be very forgiving and give you very nice results. So you end up with something nice still. I always shoot Ha from home, unless the night is exceptionally good with no glow in the air, cold, no wind and no moon. It does happen, sometime...

[that_guy (Tony)]

im starting out in video astronomy since the lp at my unit complex is horrible with the new maccas accross the road from my house... vid astron doesnt get affected by lp as much as AP from what i heard, ask ken (ballaratdragon), hes the expert and the dude who made me get interested in it