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Old 26-08-2010, 07:25 AM
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In the News: Super Massive Black Holes

In the news today .. reports of the latest 'computer simulations' on how the first black holes formed and how structures grow around them. Mind you, they are still simulations from a model ...

"First Super Massive Black Holes Were born 'Soon' After the Big Bang"
http://www.physorg.com/news201957102.html

"Astronomers believe they have discovered the origin of our universe's first super-massive black holes, which formed some 13 billion years ago."
...
"For more than two decades, the prevailing wisdom among astronomers has been that galaxies evolved hierarchically -- that is, gravity drew small bits of matter together first, and those small bits gradually came together to form larger structures.

Kazantzidis and his team turn that notion on its head.

"For example, the standard idea -- that a galaxy's properties and the mass of its central black hole are related because the two grow in parallel -- will have to be revised. In our model, the black hole grows much faster than the galaxy. So it could be that the black hole is not regulated at all by the growth of the galaxy. It could be that the galaxy is regulated by the growth of the black hole."

Interesting ... mostly about 'truing up' the complex models of BH/Galaxy mergers .. nice videos showing the simulations.

Cheers

Last edited by CraigS; 26-08-2010 at 09:53 AM.
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Old 26-08-2010, 09:51 AM
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This seem to indicate the spiral structure in galaxies is a consequence of collisions.. at least sometimes...
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Old 26-08-2010, 09:56 AM
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So, after reading the paper, the points they are making are:

Gravitational wave detectors, such as LISA, will enable the use of gravitational wave signals from Massive Black Hole, (MBH), mergers as a new, independent probe of cosmic structure formation (galaxies, etc).

Gravitational waveforms can allow the determination of mass, spin, and orbital parameters of the merging MBHs.

This information could be used to infer the masses of the merging host galaxies. However, their results demonstrate that this connection cannot be made by simply applying the observed scaling relations between the masses of MBHs and the properties of their host galaxies, even if these scalings are applicable to galaxies throughout cosmic history.

Their findings suggest that the mapping between galaxy and MBH mergers depends on various factors, such as the gas content of the merging galaxies and the encounter geometry, and as such might need to be approached in a probabilistic way.

... Hmm ... 'truing' up the models & scaling-up factors underpinning present galaxy origins ..

Cheers

Last edited by CraigS; 26-08-2010 at 02:58 PM.
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Old 26-08-2010, 10:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bojan View Post
This seem to indicate the spiral structure in galaxies is a consequence of collisions.. at least sometimes...
Yes. I get that, too.

My other thread about 'Density Waves', perhaps, can be viewed as a discussion on the sustaining mechanism which keeps the spirals together once they form?? (Perhaps ?)

Cheers

Last edited by CraigS; 26-08-2010 at 02:03 PM.
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Old 26-08-2010, 10:42 AM
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Very interesting article...this idea has been floating about for a few years now, but they've only just recently been able to gather enough observational evidence to suggest that this might be occurring. The simulations seem to agree with what observational evidence they have gathered, which is a reasonably good indication that they maybe on the right track. Still needs more observation and simulation, though.
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Old 26-08-2010, 05:19 PM
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In the light of the threads on Density Wave Theory, Hyper Velocity Stars and this one, I've just been reading up on gravitational waves.

Interesting to note that if they ever discover a Hypercompact Stellar System (HCSS), the modelling these guys have done would need 'significant reworking'.

Discovering one of these beasties would imply that some galaxies do not have MBHs at their cores and that SMBHs could exist outside of galaxies !

I guess they've done a fair amount of searching for these over the years, (MACHO surveys, etc), and haven't found any, but its noteworthy that there is a lot of theory which could become 'a little unravelled' if they ever found one.

LISA and the search for gravitational waves could do a whole lot more than just confirm a theoretical prediction from GR.

Interesting.
Cheers
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Old 26-08-2010, 05:37 PM
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They've looked everywhere for HCSS's and haven't found any so far (doesn't mean to say they don't exist, just that they haven't found one). However, any dense, compact stellar association like that would tend to gravitationally collapse unless the individual stars are traveling at high orbital velocities. In which case, the BH at their centre would get larger if they collapsed onto it. If that happened, you'd have Buckley's chance of seeing it unless it lensed an object...like a distant galaxy.
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Old 26-08-2010, 05:47 PM
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Yep. If they existed I think I read that they would be small & dense (tight orbits around the MBH) and dim. (Before collapse, obviously).

Tough to find, hence intriguingly interesting.

The thing is though, LISA might detect things like this if they generate gravity waves.
There could also be lots to learn from wave interference patterns etc around BHs.

Oh well, HCSS ? Just another theoretical prediction .... maybe someday ..

Cheers
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Old 27-08-2010, 12:57 AM
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That something what i told long time ago.

Sorry about my terrible english.

i have a idea. That idea divination, augury, prognostication, prediction, prophecy that phenomena many years ago.

There is no gravity at all.

Space dont expanding at all.

http://www.physorg.com/news200757794.html

.

Quasars*

Quasi-stellar objects (QSO)

Is it possible that the visible universe moves in a moment entirely away from the space where it locates now, so that everything expand / explode at the same time and become for example to times bigger than they are now?

Are the galaxies photons of a substance that is in one size larger scale?

Are the quasi-stellar objects formed at the same time when the giant energyconcentrations of the galaxycentres pass by the similar concentrations that come against nearby?

Maybe the whole visible univese moved for the first seven billion years inside a substance that was one scale larger.

Also the photons give way to the photons coming against by waves that open up by themselves. The nearer the passing happens the more the opening energy from the energy concentration comimng against makes the concentration to explode energy in frontsides and with this energy they pass to another direction.

Is the corona of the sun formed when the energybudles coming against the sun pass nearby the energybudles opening up from the sun? Or does there happen straight smashes?

Galaxies*
The galaxies rotate like wheels. If there would exist a drafting force, should the galaxies have ten times larger mass than it is at present observed. This is because the farthest stars of galaxies circulate the centre of galaxy so fast. The gravity of observed mass is not able to keep them in their orbits. The stars that circulate the furthest should be thrown away from their tracks.

Although the modern physics does not understand how the gravitation is transfered, it still has found out that galaxies consist of some mystery substace that has this drawing force.

The dark substace is different from the observed substance. Yet it has the the same kind of drawing force as the observed substance has.

No, there is no gravitation!

All the stars of the galaxies have arised from the black holes of the giant centres of the galaxies. They expand three-dimentionally, opening up energywaves that have the nature of atoms. The stars expand and push themselves away from the galaxy centre in a curved orbit in a same relation as they expand.

That is to say that also the furthest stars are thrown away from the centre of the galaxy. The same way as their speed of movement around the galaxy centre lets us suppose. Only this is not observed, because everything expands three-dimentionally in same relation.




Stars *
According to my idea, stars are formed out of gigantic, three-dimensionally expanding energy concentrations in the centres of galaxies, which release energy waves with an atomic nature. Energy waves that open up contain expanding quarks.

A sufficient energy pulse from outside sweeps with it the energy waves released by the quarks, which would otherwise push other quarks away in a relation analogous to their expansion. Now, the quarks start to expand and come close to each other in a way similar to cold fusion, forming what is called protons and neutrons, which are similar expanding energy concentrations releasing energy waves.

This explains one of the mysteries in modern physics, that is, how it is possible that new stars still come into existence near the gigantic black holes in galaxy centres. If the black holes indeed had a force that the calculations show, that attractive force ought to prevent the formation of new stars. My idea, in turn, could predict the new stars in the vicinity of the huge black holes in galaxy centres.

.

I have a something with english, if you are interesting.

Check out and lets ask, if you like.

http://www.onesimpleprinciple.com/fo...wforum.php?f=2

Thank you

.
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  #10  
Old 27-08-2010, 06:56 AM
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OMG !!
Why me ?? Why is it always me ? (& my posts ? - don't answer KenGee )




Forgive me if I'm a little suspicious about this one ...

Mr Pressure: would you happen to be an EU devotee with a first name of Alex?

Cheers

Last edited by CraigS; 27-08-2010 at 07:32 AM.
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  #11  
Old 27-08-2010, 03:57 PM
Mr. Pressure
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Alex?

Alex, who, what, why???

i also divination, augury, prognostication, prediction, prophecy

phenomena like Dark Flow.

it was 28.5.2008

28 may.2008

Google translation


Baby galaxies

http://www.ursa.fi/blogit/ta/index.p...&c=1&tb=1&pb=1


Perhaps these baby galaxies are from different energiakeskittymästä than older galaxies. If so, then your baby can probably detect movement of the galaxies in this matter.

Both concentrations of energy, therefore, are located outside of the visible universe, and they are expanding, opening up to the energy waves to the nature of the galaxy.

I throw thus echoed the suspicion here!

RemonttiJukteri

My prophecy 28, may 2008

http://www.onesimpleprinciple.com/fo...pic.php?t=2259


First time i heard about Dark Flow after 23 September 2008

http://www.space.com/scienceastronom...ark-flows.html

People who believe, there is space who expanding, could not prophecy phenomena like Dark flow.

I prophecy phenomena like Dark Flow

.
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  #12  
Old 27-08-2010, 04:57 PM
Jarvamundo (Alex)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigS View Post
OMG !!
Why me ?? Why is it always me ? (& my posts ? - don't answer KenGee )




Forgive me if I'm a little suspicious about this one ...

Mr Pressure: would you happen to be an EU devotee with a first name of Alex?

Cheers
Hah! This guy is great! Cmon do Rats believe in conspiracies now? Rattus?

FYI Alex is some guy on the internet who doesn't swallow the dirtysnowball model of comets as discussed here: http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...ad.php?t=56226

Why? well cos the measurements detected 99.975% not water.... and the photos look like rock with hundred meter pinacles! and kilometer cliffs...

yup... it aint sublimating ice

HERESEY!!!!!
I know i know... shoot me for looking at the photos..... sorry master
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