Need a new mount

garymck (Gary) · #1 23-03-2010, 10:19 PM

Hi,
after fighting with a really poor example of an EQ6 for three years I've finally given up. I've replaced gears, just tried a belt drive conversion (results initially are not too promising) I've had enough. It's time to quit trying to fix a chinese POS and accept defeat. After spending more time trying to fix the mount than actually using it I intend to attack it with a sledge hammer. In all honesty I could not rip someone off by selling it to them.

I have a lovely Vixen VC200L bought secondhand off a member here that after I finally got it collimated is spectacularly good, also an 8" f4 GSO newt/Badder mpcc combo, a guidescope , guider and QHY8.

Is a Losmandy g11 my only alternative to get decent images using the VC200L? I know 1.8m fl is harder than .8m. I can't afford a G11 at 5K. Would a GPD2 work? Vixen sell it as a combo with the VC, and the VC200L / guidescope / camera would come in at under 10kg - the weight limit for the mount? 2K would be my limit - either that or give up astronomy until I can save up for the G11 (means 2 years out of action ). Please suggest anything as long as Synta don't make it......

cheers (not really)
Gary

MuntiNZ (Daz) · #2 23-03-2010, 10:33 PM

Hi mate my flatmate has a new EQ6 Pro he bought a couple of months ago and its a cracker I gotta say.
The best bit is the EQMod software which is gold.
What I heard was that the old ones were a bit crappy with glue for grease and full of swarf and crap but the new ones are way better.
My mates one is a ripper I am quiet impressed.
No way is it a Tak but --- my EM-11 stomps all over it for workmanship but the new EQ6 is way better than I expected them to be.
No noise either but my Tak sounds better!

The Losmandy are ok I used a G11 for a few months but I hated the gemini thing and for what it cost Im glad I didnt buy it coz it wasnt as good as I expected it to be.
But its gotta be better than the old EQ6 you got now.

garymck (Gary) · #3 23-03-2010, 10:37 PM

I agree, EQMOD is great, I use it, but I couldn't bring myself to buy another Synta mount.

Gary

gbeal · #4 24-03-2010, 05:17 AM

Gary
I (as anyone here will attest, LOL), have had more mounts that I care to admit to.
I currently have a nice EM200T2, and it is wonderful.Prior to that a CGE, equally nice, but not with the solid workmanship that comes from spending more (not trying to sound stuck-up here though, please).
I looked at an EQ6 a while back, the clinical white model and it looked OK, not quite the Tak perhaps but very nice.
Like Daz I have a friend in NZ that bought a new HEQ6, and he also has a G11 (with encoders, not Gemini). Since getting the EQ6 the G11 has sat unloved, he really is happy with his EQ6, really. He has a VC200L on it as well.
Maybe another try, sorry to suggest that. Or talk to Louie (atalas) he has a couple of lovely mounts for sale. I owned the AP600E and can vouch for it. Solid no nonsense mount.
Gary

pmrid (Peter) · #5 24-03-2010, 05:48 AM

Hi Gary,
you mentioned weight limits as a factor in your choice. I have an older EQ6 and a new NEQ6Pro (both of which are good performers) and have had other variants including a Meade LXD75 and a HEQ5Pro. My experience with them has led me to a general approach to weight limits to stay well inside them if at all possible. My mounts of all types and sizes have seemed to be more reliable and generally more consistely performers if I can stay below about about 2/3 of their 'rated' capacity. Where I can, I use off-axis guiders rather than separate guide scopes, for example and reduce counter-weights where possible by placing them as far away as I can get from the mount head. I commend this approach to you in your choosing a new mount. For 2 grand, a new NEQ6Pro will be under warranty and therefore capable of having many if not most of defects remedied without resort to drastic measures. And the equipment you have identified would be well within its tolerances. Probably not what you want to hear but I do agree with others who have said much the same thing to you.

Peter.

garymck (Gary) · #6 24-03-2010, 06:51 AM

Thanks guys,

I actually believe my mount was part of a bad batch 3 years ago. It is the second replacement (ie third EQ6) that was supplied to me under warranty by Tasco. All 3 showed the same problems. Interestingly at the same time I bought the mount a half a dozen or so showed up for sale here withing a 2 month period or so, not sure if that was a coincidence or not. However since there are still people reporting the problems I have, I simply won't risk another purchase of a chinese mount. Some people get good ones, some people don't. I can't afford to risk getting another dud. Besides, most people using the EQ6 for imaging are using focal lengths of a meter or less. Those that I know personally using it at longer FL's are fighting it all the time.

I guess I'll wait for something secondhand to come up and start saving. I don't think I'll ever buy a "cheap" product again. If I totalled up the money I've spent over 20 years in the hobby on "cheap stuff" that ultimately had to be replaced as unsatisfactory, I'd now own a complete Tak outfit...

cheers
Gary

Jeffkop (Jeff) · #7 24-03-2010, 08:36 AM

I went down the identical path to you Gary, well almost, I had an EQ5Pro ... then I had it replaced with another one, well not the tripod. To make things worse this was when I was just starting of in this game. The very last thing I needed then was real equipment problems thrown into the mix of uncertainty. In the end I ordered a G11 and never looked back. Despite the plethora of users with EQ6's and the like I would never go down that Synta path again either. Funny how those mounts can have identical effect on two probably very different people. I know EXACTLY how you feel. Anyway my theory is ANYTHING will be better than those .. Good Luck

rider · #8 24-03-2010, 09:51 AM

No point in getting another Eq6, I got THE good one, -accurate go-to, -near silent, -carries my 12inch newt like its a feather...

garymck (Gary) · #9 24-03-2010, 09:56 AM

Never had a problem with goto, mine's also near silent, carries heaps of weight, tracks like %^%*% :-)

Gary

Paul Haese · #10 26-03-2010, 09:28 AM

Got to say I see more stunning images coming from EQ6 models than not. I went to the skywatcher factory in China last year where all these mounts are made. Every thing looked pretty good with clean rooms to boot.

Having said that your next port of call is either the CGE, Vixen or Losmandy. For my money the Losmandy carries a better name.

However, if you are serious about staying in the imaging game. Start saving for a 10k+ mount. Once you have the mount you will not likely ever have cause for real complaint. This is the most critical part of your imaging system. The mount is every thing in the equation.

garymck (Gary) · #11 26-03-2010, 09:54 AM

Hi Paul,

I've seen lots of good eq6 images as well, and I'm sure the majority of eq6's are ok - especially for imaging at under 1 meter fl. Anything over this and there are numerous issues. There is a well known 10.2 second error in tracking that if you have it bad causes a 2 arc second jump every 10.2 seconds (of course!), Periodic error correction that will never fully work because it uses wierd gear ratios (motor to worm gear 3.916666), intermediate gears that are out of round and a tracking system that relies on microstepping for smooth tracking (9.2 arc sec per full step!!!!!). After having one of the lousy ones and doing everything possible to fix it (would you believe I can strip one and put it back together in under a half an hour I've done it so many times!), I wouldn't risk more money on anything Synta in the future unless I had the benefit of "if you are not happy return for full refund guarantee" like they do in the US.
I have decided to go smaller and higher quality and ordered a Vixen GPD2 that will be fitted with a dc motor drive. After some correspondence with Vixen users, I'm pretty sure this will work fine with the VC200l. Once that is up and running I'll start saving for one of the real mounts...Tak, AP, MI etc, might take a couple of years, but hey as one enters middle age , one gets more patient - as well as time going a hell of a lot faster!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Haese

Got to say I see more stunning images coming from EQ6 models than not. I went to the skywatcher factory in China last year where all these mounts are made. Every thing looked pretty good with clean rooms to boot.

Having said that your next port of call is either the CGE, Vixen or Losmandy. For my money the Losmandy carries a better name.

However, if you are serious about staying in the imaging game. Start saving for a 10k+ mount. Once you have the mount you will not likely ever have cause for real complaint. This is the most critical part of your imaging system. The mount is every thing in the equation.

Paul Haese · #12 26-03-2010, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garymck

I wouldn't risk more money on anything Synta in the future

Well all the Celestron HD edge scopes are made in the Synta factory. Not head much bad about them.

Yes you get what you pay for I suppose. However for the money these mounts are pretty good overall. Tracking errors and PE can be guided out. Mounts with 3 arc second PE are generally over the 10K mark and I would be surprised if the Vixen mount does not have 5-7 arc second errors in them too. You obviously got a bad mount or two and for that I am sorry. Remember the mount is every thing, but it all costs money.

garymck (Gary) · #13 26-03-2010, 11:30 PM

Its not the overall pe that is the problem, it's the 2 arc sec jumps every 10.2 seconds that are. This jump is a function of the design...some EQ6's are much worse than others (like mine)and it is a well known issue. It wouldn't matter if the pe was 40 arc secs as long as it was slow and regular - this would only be 5 arc secs a minute or 1 arc sec every 12 seconds...easy guiding. It is the fast errors that are built into the mount that are a problem at longer focal lengths. If I was using an ED80 then the error couldn't be seen. This is the thing, most people imaging with eq6's (note, most, NOT all) are using short focal lengths.... From all reports I can find a GPD2 will have a slow regular pe that is easily guided. If so it will do me until I can save the money for a Tak, AP or similar!!!!!

cheers
Gary

MuntiNZ (Daz) · #14 27-03-2010, 10:24 AM

Had enough of making peanut money in NZ.
You would earn more making t shirts in malawi.
So I am thinking I will get a top mount when the money is rolling in again.
Not slagging the EQ6 or anything its just that I want a no worries mount for life.
Lookin at the big Taks and Paramount and A-P mounts but theres some new ones with direct drive come out now.
Does anyone here have one who can give us a review?
Pricey but look blardy awesomeness.
Maybe I will also keep my EM-11 coz its a nice mount or I may sell it if anyone is intrested.
Hey sorry if this is OT but it is about getting a new mount!!!

leon · #15 27-03-2010, 08:51 PM

As mentioned earlier in this thread, about the G11 amd Gemini, I really don't agree, once you have mastered the Gemini, all can be done by the use of only 4 buttons.

In my opinion , the combination of the G11 and Gemini, is just fantastic.

Leon

mick pinner · #16 27-03-2010, 09:40 PM

or G11 and Argo Navis Leon.

bert (Brett) · #17 27-03-2010, 10:23 PM

I use a eq6 with a highly modified vc200l. I am doing ok with tracking, but I am cheating with an AO8. I dont know what cam you are using, but adaptive optics are to me at least worth their weight in gold knowing that every exposure is going to be perfect.

I know leinad on this forum with a eq6, vc, qhy8 combo after using pempro for pe correction, is taking 15 minute exposures at 1800mm.

Note, that the gpd2 is a LOT smaller mount.

Brett

allan gould · #18 27-03-2010, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leon

As mentioned earlier in this thread, about the G11 amd Gemini, I really don't agree, once you have mastered the Gemini, all can be done by the use of only 4 buttons.

In my opinion , the combination of the G11 and Gemini, is just fantastic.

Leon

have to agree 100% with you Leon - love my G11 with Gemini

bmitchell82 (Brendan) · #19 28-03-2010, 12:20 AM

I run a 10" dob with a 114mm newt running 20 min subs with round stars. something must be amiss with yours, sure you might get one or two lemons but not one after the other when so many others get decent variants.

where about's are you in aus? maybe there is somebody that can at least look at what your doing. irrespective if you can pull this mount down in 30 minutes sometimes different eyes see different things. just a suggestion.

As bert said Leinard has his vc200l in its native format and i have accompanied him whilst this is happening. have you used PEMpro to see your errors. and whats actually happening at the time?

just trying to help as the eq6 is a decent setup until you save some dollars.

garymck (Gary) · #20 28-03-2010, 11:48 AM

Hi,
as i said some people are lucky and get good results, search around, many have problems. I have used a variety of tools over the years to analyse what is going on. I know exactly where the problems lie:

1) the bearing journals are not concentric with each other, nor with the actual worm thread...this means the worm wobbles in its bearings as it turns. Adjust backlash so it is right in one spot then the worm jams in another....)

2) the transfer gear is not round (appears to be a moulded blank that has been cut when examined under a loupe) This means that it is not possible to correctly set the spacing between the gears for good engagement)

3) the 47 tooth gear on the worm had been bored to an incorrect size so it was a very loose fit on the worm and wobbled - though we did make a collar for it in an attempt to fix this...a small amount of success.

4) because the gear ratio is not even, periodic error correction can never give good results as it does not repeat regularly (the gear ratio is 47/12=3.916666)

5) I get the well known 10.2 second error, which because of the above factors causes a 2 arc second jump every 10.2 seconds that is far too fast for an autoguider to catch - note that it was a 5 arc second jump when I started!!!!!!

What I have tried (the short list!)

new collar to fit 47 tooth spur gear accurately to worm - slight improvement

New precision bearings to hold worm - no difference

New gears from Alaska - useless as motor gear was not made accurately and wobbled on motor though others were fine - $200 down the drain

Lapping everything - no great change

Huge number of attempts to adjust everything to get tracking right - did get it working for a short time purely due to dumb luck, didn't stay right for long..

Have tried every possible option to fix it, but no luck. The stupidest decision I ever made was to sell my Bartelised EQ6 to avandonk......it was beautiful.

After 3 years with very few images to show for it, I'm sure you will understand why I am a bit peeved with it!!!! I really wish I had a good one, but I don't, time for a change......

I do have to say that Tasco gave outstanding service, replacing the original mount twice after examining my original one. they paid freight both ways and agreed with my problems. I regard their service as exemplary. The only thing they didn't do was offer me a refund! The two replacements were similar in performance to the original, so I can only conclude that there was a bad batch around when I got mine.

hope this fills in any queries..

cheers
Gary

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmitchell82

I run a 10" dob with a 114mm newt running 20 min subs with round stars. something must be amiss with yours, sure you might get one or two lemons but not one after the other when so many others get decent variants.

where about's are you in aus? maybe there is somebody that can at least look at what your doing. irrespective if you can pull this mount down in 30 minutes sometimes different eyes see different things. just a suggestion.

As bert said Leinard has his vc200l in its native format and i have accompanied him whilst this is happening. have you used PEMpro to see your errors. and whats actually happening at the time?

just trying to help as the eq6 is a decent setup until you save some dollars.