DSLR vs CCD cameras

tims · #1 09-04-2010, 05:27 AM

There's so much info on astro-photography that it's making my head spin

so I wonder if I can get some general advice on equipment with the goal of getting good high resolution DSO images in mind.

For example, if I have a good 4" APO refractor mounted on say a EQ6 mount and use some form of autoguiding is it possible to say what ccd camera (any make) would better a modified Canon EOS 450D / Digital Rebel XSi DSLR?

Reason I ask is that I often read that to get the best images a ccd camera is the only way to go rather than a DSLR. That's obviously true with the mega dollar high end stuff but is it possible to say in what areas the above Canon DSLR would match say the QHY8 or the Orion StarShoot Deep Space Pro CCD camera's or are there too many other variants to consider?

Tim

Octane (Humayun) · #2 09-04-2010, 08:06 AM

Any CCD outdoes a DSLR, essentially.

Although, you can still take breathtaking images with a DSLR.

I've just weaned myself off a DSLR after many years.

H

multiweb (Marc) · #3 09-04-2010, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tims

but is it possible to say in what areas the above Canon DSLR would match say the QHY8 or the Orion StarShoot Deep Space Pro CCD camera's or are there too many other variants to consider?

I started with a Nikon Coolpix then a Pentax *istD. Eventually I got a QHY8 and everything, I mean everything became much simpler. No noise, no power hacks to bypass camera batteries, no wait for frame downloads, standard FITS for capture, no issues with proprietary file formats, weight, the list goes on.... Looking back, my advice is: get a (small) OSC CCD, get into it straight away and save yourself a whole world of pain.

gregbradley · #4 09-04-2010, 08:47 AM

From what I have used and seen, a really good DSLR operator can match QHY8 images but probably harder for them to achieve.

I agree with Marc a dedicated astro one shot colour CCD would be a great starting point.

Starlight Express MX25C is a popular and higher end one shot colour.
SBIG sell an ST8300C which would be a fantastic entry camera and is "cheap".

The main reason people start with DSLRs is they are a lot more inexpensive than CCDs usually. That has changed over the years and the price gap is less than it was.

Greg.

bmitchell82 (Brendan) · #5 09-04-2010, 10:30 AM

a factor that a lot of people miss is the temperature factor, yes a CCD has advantages over a CMOS sensor (that's the primary difference between the two). the 40d is a great sensor and is a relatively big sensor, where it falls down is 2 places Temperature you need to have a low ambient temp to my mind > 10deg anything much over that and the noise is unbearable. Secondly is the modification, you have to modify and remove the daylight filter that all manufactures put on there to cut UV/IR transmissions, Hydrogen alpha which emits in the near IR spectrum is virtually all but blocked by these filters leaving your choice of photo limited. Currently i use a Canon 40d that has been modified, not by choice its just what i have.

If you have the means get a cooled astro ccd, a qhy8 OSC (one shot colour) is a bonza camera, well supported and produces results.!

As your wanting to get into astrophotography there's loads of things that you need to look at, keep asking questions and if you are buying kit ask the knowledgeable gents and ladies here, you'll save yourself alot of $$$

that said have a look at my website listed in my tag below. that will give you an idea of what a dslr is capable of in the right temperature zone

Octane (Humayun) · #6 09-04-2010, 10:53 AM

Tim,

I've got a modified 40D for sale in the imaging classifieds section. I've included a bunch of links to sample completed images that I've taken with the 40D. It's a beautiful camera for both terrestrial and astrophotographic use. The advantage the 40D has over the older cameras is that it has a 14-bit sensor rather than a 12-bit. Dedicated CCDs have 16-bit sensors which allow for greater dynamic range yet.

H

tims · #7 09-04-2010, 03:03 PM

Thanks for the replies guy's - much appreciated. Brendan, there are some great shots in your album. Were they all taken with the 40D and the SW ED 80 scope?

Humayun, thanks - I'll check out your camera. Have you any images for viewing anywhere?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmitchell82

a factor that a lot of people miss is the temperature factor, yes a CCD has advantages over a CMOS sensor (that's the primary difference between the two). the 40d is a great sensor and is a relatively big sensor, where it falls down is 2 places Temperature you need to have a low ambient temp to my mind > 10deg anything much over that and the noise is unbearable. Secondly is the modification, you have to modify and remove the daylight filter that all manufactures put on there to cut UV/IR transmissions, Hydrogen alpha which emits in the near IR spectrum is virtually all but blocked by these filters leaving your choice of photo limited. Currently i use a Canon 40d that has been modified, not by choice its just what i have.

If you have the means get a cooled astro ccd, a qhy8 OSC (one shot colour) is a bonza camera, well supported and produces results.!

As your wanting to get into astrophotography there's loads of things that you need to look at, keep asking questions and if you are buying kit ask the knowledgeable gents and ladies here, you'll save yourself alot of $$$

that said have a look at my website listed in my tag below. that will give you an idea of what a dslr is capable of in the right temperature zone

Octane (Humayun) · #8 09-04-2010, 03:06 PM

Tim,

The images are in the classifieds ad I've put up.

H

bmitchell82 (Brendan) · #9 10-04-2010, 12:23 AM

They have all been taken with the 40d, but not all with the ed80, some are with the 10" dobsonian, they are clear to see which is which. Diffraction spikes give away the Newtonian, the non diffraction spikes are the refractor.

duncan · #10 10-04-2010, 01:41 AM

I'm Confused!!!!! Either a 40D or a dedicated camera. I've watched all the posts here there and everywhere and the impression is go a dedicated camera, CHEERS,

Duncan

Octane (Humayun) · #11 10-04-2010, 02:12 AM

Duncan,

I guess, nowadays, it comes down to whether you're serious about your imaging and have a mount that will support that addiction. Because, the cost between a brand new high-end DSLR and a half-decent CCD camera is quite negligible.

I had a lot of success with the DSLR, but, I can't put up with the noise anymore in summer!

H

bmitchell82 (Brendan) · #12 10-04-2010, 02:28 AM

Oh H, how i feel your pain. winter its a dream summer its a nightmare!

Ill second H on that one duncan, if you are serious about your imaging then there is no other way to go than dedicated astro CCD, hell you can get a qhy8 for 1200 odd from peter tan presently. or from theo for 1800 ish (they are the new model version and supported in au...)

Octane (Humayun) · #13 10-04-2010, 02:48 AM

Brendan,

Yeah, exactly.

I was either going to sell everything and move on or go and do something completely outrageous and buy an equally outrageously expensive CCD to keep my heart in it. I'm now more enthusiastic than ever. I've been doing 10-minute darks all night at -15 degrees and compared to a DSLR, this is heaven.

H

bmitchell82 (Brendan) · #14 10-04-2010, 10:17 AM

ive already informed my partner that as soon as i graduate and start earning money again i will be purchasing a new CCD cam, probably a FLI large format CCD.

congrats on your new astro tool, i cant wait to see the results.!