Skyand Space........please come back

[fuso (Anthony)]

I miss S&S,I hope it comes back soon, I can't stand Aust sky&telescope its c&*p. Take out the ads and all you have left is 3/4 USA mag

Please come back.......if you do I promise i'll buy you

[I.C.D (Ian)]

Here,Here
I have been getting Sky at Night lately as well as Sky&Space.It would be great to get our own Local Astronomy Mag back again as we as the foreign one's as well.


Ian C

[Miaplacidus (Brian)]

Yes, yes, please come back. If you do, I promise I'll demand a refund for all the issues I never received.

[el_draco (Rom)]

If you are lamenting the disappearance of this magazine, why not do the obvious, go electronic and produce one ourselves. There are enough people in this group alone to put together an online mag, complete with content thats relevant to us, and current. I'd be involved if someone wants to try it out. Maybe it could be set up as an off-shoot of IIS.... admin listening???

[matt]

Originally Posted by el_draco

If you are lamenting the disappearance of this magazine, why not do the obvious, go electronic and produce one ourselves. There are enough people in this group alone to put together an online mag, complete with content thats relevant to us, and current. I'd be involved if someone wants to try it out. Maybe it could be set up as an off-shoot of IIS.... admin listening???

Tell us more. What sort of content do you envisage as 'relevant to us'?

How often would it come out?

Etc etc

[PeterM]

Originally Posted by fuso

I miss S&S,I hope it comes back soon, I can't stand Aust sky&telescope its c&*p. Take out the ads and all you have left is 3/4 USA mag

Please come back.......if you do I promise i'll buy you

You are joking, right? Whatever you may think of Australian Sky and Telescope there is no denying it has been reliable for many years. It does present Australian content and imagery. Can always be found on most newsagents stands, no doubt it is delivered regularly on time to its subscribers. And finally to boot it's advertising content presents a good showing of Australian retailers.
PeterM.

[stephenb (Stephen)]

Originally Posted by PeterM

You are joking, right? Whatever you may think of Australian Sky and Telescope there is no denying it has been reliable for many years. It does present Australian content and imagery. Can always be found on most newsagents stands, no doubt it is delivered regularly on time to its subscribers. And finally to boot it's advertising content presents a good showing of Australian retailers.
PeterM.

I fully agree with every single point Peter outlines here.

1. S&S became obscenely unreliable, (a) in their obligation to provide issues to paid subscribers and to newsagents, and (b) in their communications with their customers. They treated their customers with contempt and I hope it never surfaces again.

2. The fact that the S&S website has not changed or been updated in over 2 years shows how interested they are keeping the local community informed of their presence.

3. What ever you may think of the content of AS&T, I believe it is by far the best publication we have seen in this country. And yes I have been critical of the US/local content in the past, also.

4. AS&T is on my newsagent's shelf within days of that same issue arriving at my local telescope dealers.

5. When I started in the hobby 25 years ago, the only two magazines I could get were S&T and Astronomy, and they were by subscription only, and only then did they arrive 2-3 months behind the issue date. We are very fortunate these days.

Originally Posted by fuso

Please come back.......if you do I promise i'll buy you

I promise you, fuso, you'd be the only one who will.

[fuso (Anthony)]

Originally Posted by glenluceskies

I fully agree with every single point Peter outlines here.

1. S&S became obscenely unreliable, (a) in their obligation to provide issues to paid subscribers and to newsagents, and (b) in their communications with their customers. They treated their customers with contempt and I hope it never surfaces again.

2. The fact that the S&S website has not changed or been updated in over 2 years shows how interested they are keeping the local community informed of their presence.

3. What ever you may think of the content of AS&T, I believe it is by far the best publication we have seen in this country. And yes I have been critical of the US/local content in the past, also.

4. AS&T is on my newsagent's shelf within days of that same issue arriving at my local telescope dealers.

5. When I started in the hobby 25 years ago, the only two magazines I could get were S&T and Astronomy, and they were by subscription only, and only then did they arrive 2-3 months behind the issue date. We are very fortunate these days.



I promise you, fuso, you'd be the only one who will.

I agree with everything you guys have said

Even I got p*%%ed off with late arrivals and missing issues, my subscription finished on that last issue (how lucky was I), but I still think their later issues are far more appealing than Aust S&T, more aussie written articles, I still remember seeing a big test on eyepieces (over 6 pages I think, aussie written not USA).

I give S&S 9/10 for content, and 0/10 logistics/service


Why are most if not all their equipment tests (Aust S&T) just copied from the US issue?
When I ever buy an Astro mag (3-5 per year) maybe one would be Aust S&T.
Yet when I buy other mags ( fishing, cars, planes,………etc) most are Aust mags!

[multiweb (Marc)]

Originally Posted by fuso

I miss S&S,I hope it comes back soon, I can't stand Aust sky&telescope its c&*p. Take out the ads and all you have left is 3/4 USA mag

Please come back.......if you do I promise i'll buy you

I've heard AS&T is still tied up with the US in a big way and don't have that much choice in the domestic content quota so it's unlikely more aussie pics will be published than what it does now.

That reminds me of an argument with the domestic movie industry in France 20yrs ago. Some people started winging (including French studios) that for 1 French movie in the cinemas they had 20 or so US movies showing. So they tried to restrict the amount of US shows in relation to the the domestic productions... Until the "next starwars" came around attached with 10 B-series flicks. Take it or leave it was the deal. Went all back to business real quick wanting the good stuff and putting up with the not soo good.

AS&T had some great local contributions but also a lot of wonderful O/S material. I guess it's all about volume. Might change over time.

[matt]

I'd rather have a mix of local and overseas content that turns up on time....every time....at my local newsagent than the alternative, which is what we came to expect.

It would be nice, though, to have another publication on the newsstands. One mag a month or every second month doesn't satisfy the hunger!

[Barrykgerdes]

From what I have seen on Australian produced mags with a limited market. It is not economically viable from a revenue point of view. This results in shoe string budgets, lack of good home brewed articles, cheap publishing deals etc which result in delays in circulation and missing issues. Followed by loss of support by the subscribers and advertisers and eventual complete demise.

Sky and Space was not the first Australian astonomy mag to fold but it ran for the longest period thanks to some dedicated work by a few people working for a pittance in the hope that its viability would eventuate.

The current AS&T is only viable because of the huge USA support and thus must push the US material. At least we get some input. Be happy that we have at least got some version of an Aust. Astronomy mag. on the magazine shelves.

Don't forget we also have Mike's "Night Sky" sheet that has been around for decades. Produced free by the B&T shop and delivered by email. "Universe" from the ASNSW if you are a member and the journals published by other Australian societies. These all have content to suit the Australian scene as well.

Barry

[Jen]

Originally Posted by Miaplacidus

Yes, yes, please come back. If you do, I promise I'll demand a refund for all the issues I never received.

[el_draco (Rom)]

Originally Posted by matt

Tell us more. What sort of content do you envisage as 'relevant to us'?

How often would it come out?

Etc etc

I hate hard copy. Ends up as landfill or loaded in cardboard boxes; dead technology, ecologically unsustainable and slow.... the top reasons I DONT subscribe to hardcopy magazines. I'd far rather have a high quality PDF sent to me on a regular basis with a decent indexing system.

Cost to produce compared to a hardcopy version?, negligible, cost to distribute, even less. Subscriptions? Advertising? Maybe pay a few people to coordinate production, report on specific events etc.

Distribution could occur on a regular, (ie weekly/fortnightly/monthly), basis with access to alert systems for a variety of purposes, nova for example. Would not need much money to finance I suspect.

Coordination would be the key. I'd suggest a free cut down version widely distributed with extras available by subscription. Hell, just thinking about the options/opportunities makes my head buzz.

What would go in it? Content from a world wide audience of amateurs and professionals with regular contributors from "experts". Major manufacturers could be invited to promote/demonstrate their wares for example.

The content could be as specific or broad as desired and anyone could submit copy. If contributors were given specific guideline for submissions, the compilation/distribution process could become relatively easy.

What content "would be relevant to us"? Anything you like. The universe is not divided into hemispheres but the observing targets are, to a point anyhow.

A Southern Hemisphere approach may actually include an increased focus on targets from the Southern Hemisphere.... LMC, SMC etc etc.

Having seen M31 from the Nevada desert, I understand why its a focus for Northern latitude amateurs. Alas, from here, its almost invisible. The LMC, on the other hand, is not invisible and, IMHO, is massively more interesting from an amateurs point of view. I would appreciate more focus on this object for example. (a magazine in itself I suspect)

I'd love to see this happen but it takes effort, and I suspect utilising an existing membership base of 6000+ through sites like IIS, would be a great way to get credibility... yes? I for one would subscribe as fast as I could type in my debit card details!!!

Lets see, for arguement sake, $50 p.a. x 6000, plus advertising revenue... phew!! oh, and thats only based on the IIS membership. Worldwide?

Note, you are not reading hardcopy at the moment are you? I spend most of my reading time online as it is. Would be nice to see it more concentrated....

I would like to know what other members, and the IIS administrators, think of the idea... Hey folks... run a POLL!!

anyone listening?

[AndrewJ]

I hate hard copy. Ends up as landfill or loaded in cardboard boxes;

One good point for hardcopy
Take yr Astro mag to the dunny and no one cares.
Take yr lappie, and they wonder what yr up to

Also, the magazine can be used in an emergency

dead technology, ecologically unsustainable

Yr computers all run on electricity. Every time you read, you use more.
The mag cost once to make and thats it
Tho a good index of the hardcopy would be nice
Always tradeoffs

and slow....

Slow can be good at times

Andrew

[el_draco (Rom)]

Originally Posted by AndrewJ

One good point for hardcopy
Take yr Astro mag to the dunny and no one cares.

Hygene issues !!!

Originally Posted by AndrewJ

Take yr lappie, and they wonder what yr up to

Reading an astronomy mag.....

Originally Posted by AndrewJ

Also, the magazine can be used in an emergency

Plan ahead

Originally Posted by AndrewJ

Yr computers all run on electricity. Every time you read, you use more.
The mag cost once to make and thats it
Tho a good index of the hardcopy would be nice
Always tradeoffs

The cost of a P.C. over the lifetime of mags it could hold, (100,000+), would be insignificant compared to the cost of the hardcopy on all counts. Take your lappie with you and the index could link you to an issue/article/phrase from 10years back. Try that with Hardcopy!

Originally Posted by AndrewJ

Slow can be good at times

Andrew

Not when someone needs confirmation/observations of a comet / incoming asteroid / SN etc etc

Apart from that... I get impatient especially when I need to find info.

[matt]

Originally Posted by el_draco

What content "would be relevant to us"? Anything you like. The universe is not divided into hemispheres but the observing targets are, to a point anyhow.

I would have thought that's exactly the approach of magazines such as AS&T...which features articles from Australian as well as international contributors.

What point of difference are you suggesting other than the manner in which it is delievered?

As for it being possibly weekly or fortnightly...are you suggesting a 4-page PDF?..because that's the struggle you're going to face with garnering enough content - at least enough to make it worth opening the PDF. What you're talking about then is a newsletter or pamphlet.

And then there's the quality of writing and editing. Whether or not you place any value in those issues is a personal matter. I know what I prefer.

And at the end of the day I like to have hard copy. A magazine I can hold in my hands and leaf through, saving in a binder for later easy access. I'm just a bit old school that way, I guess.

Interesting discussion, though.

[pgc hunter]

Hard copy all the way! To read, you don't have to wait an eternity for your computer to boot up, and you are safe from any potential errors/crashes etc the bloody comp might think of tormenting you with.

Most importantly, hard copies can be taken to the dunny

[el_draco (Rom)]

Originally Posted by matt

What point of difference are you suggesting other than the manner in which it is delievered?..

The format of the publication could be similar or completely different to whats on offer now but that would be determined by market research. The real beauty is, the format could be easily changed as required... Not so easy with paper.

For instance, it could include both professional and amateur content. I would like to know what is happening in a lot of areas that you just don't hear about in the current offerings because of the cost involved in producing hardcopy. I would also like to see images that are direct from the author. Imagine being able to click on a link to a full resolution original image rather than getting something on a printed page.

Originally Posted by matt

As for it being possibly weekly or fortnightly...are you suggesting a 4-page PDF?..because that's the struggle you're going to face with garnering enough content - at least enough to make it worth opening the PDF. What you're talking about then is a newsletter or pamphlet..

No, I am not interested in a newsletter type of publication. There are plenty of those around. I'd like to see a good quality product with a wealth of info, atleast 50+ pages. The frequency of issue would be determined by the volume of contributors I guess.

If 200 good submissions came in per week, then that may justify a weekly publication... who knows. If there were a significantly large pool of contributors, the frequency could be increased. I suspect monthly would be the obvious start up frequency with the possibility of a fortnightly bulletin and instant alerts when required. This format is currently done by Sky & Telescope in a limited way.

Originally Posted by matt

And then there's the quality of writing and editing. Whether or not you place any value in those issues is a personal matter. I know what I prefer...

As I said, this would need coordination. No product will gain popularity in this market unless it has real guts to it.... the audience is to intelligent, sophisticated and good looking . That means good editing and excellent content, requiring contributors and editors with credibility from the start. If you plan to have a subscription base, then it MUST represent value for money. Thats basic common sense.

Originally Posted by matt

And at the end of the day I like to have hard copy. A magazine I can hold in my hands and leaf through, saving in a binder for later easy access. I'm just a bit old school that way, I guess.
...

Old habits take time to change but I suspect that this change will become inevitable as time goes by. Hardcopy newspapers are already dropping like flies, or going online, and when the cost of a mag becomes excessive, as I believe it already is, the demand for online content will ensure this change happens.

If, for example, each issue of your hardcopy mag costs twice what it does now, or you could get double the content for half the price online plus "extras" would you be so resolute in your support of the hardcopy? Wont happen?"... Hmmm Carbon TAX!

Perhaps the fate of the magazine that started this thread should be seen as a warning of things to come.

I distinctly remember a bloke trying to sell me Encyclopedia Britanica hardcopy for about $2k some years ago and when I said it will all be on CD within 2 years, he scoffed at me... Guess wot!Would you pay $2k for a beautifully bound copy of Britannica that is 2 years out of date before you get it?

Personnally, I think it is better to look forward than to stand still otherwise we would all still be using film based cameras, wouldn't we...

And to illustrate the point: http://www.astrophotoinsight.com/

Originally Posted by matt

Interesting discussion, though
...

That it is, an one that we need to have as a community.

Rom

[matt]

Good luck getting 200 'good' submissions a week. From my own experience, you'd be lucky to get that many from 'local' contributors in 12 months....

And how are you going to pay for that '...good editing and excellent content, requiring contributors and editors with credibility from the start.'?

That doesn't come cheap.

Anyway...bring it on. I'd love to see a new publication enter the local astro scene. I'll keep an eye out for it, eh?

[el_draco (Rom)]

Originally Posted by matt

Good luck getting 200 'good' submissions a week. From my own experience, you'd be lucky to get that many from 'local' contributors in 12 months....

Who knows Matt. This is theoretical discussion and certainly not possible as a one man show. The things that I see are very positive pointers for such a project are simple:

1/ Economics: Online versus hardcopy... no contest on production cost and distribution.
2/ Trend: IIS, like many online communities, is growing like a proverbial weed.
3/ Demand: Younger people demand technology and they are the future of astronomy

Originally Posted by matt

And how are you going to pay for that '...good editing and excellent content, requiring contributors and editors with credibility from the start.'?
That doesn't come cheap.

Sure doesn't, but that would also be part of the market research. I am sure there are many potential contributors and editors out there who would be interested in a venture like this provided they could see a reason to participate, even on a not for profit basis. If payment were essential then, as previously suggested, even a 6000+ subscription base at $50 p.a. would be $300k.

Originally Posted by matt

Anyway...bring it on. I'd love to see a new publication enter the local astro scene. I'll keep an eye out for it, eh?

Its already here... lets see where it goes

Rom