star catalogues

[pvelez (Pete)]

Am I the only person to be confused by all the different names for stars?

I'm doing an observation project on double stars at the moment and I've been trawling through the Sissy Haas text Double Stars for Small Telescopes. The book refers to the names of the stars - but then uses a number of different systems to identify them.

Some are easy - alpha [Constellation] and 4 [Constellation] are fairly straightfoward.

Then it gets tricky.

I have stars numbered with a capital sigma (I think) [number]. What is this?

Then there are stars with a capital S [number]. I assume this is a Struve number - is this correct?

And then there are stars maked h [number].

When I try to match these with Starry Night, I can find stars using their HIP number but not much else.

Is there simple way that I can determine the various names of a star so that I can correlate my text with SN? I expect there is a website somewhere that does this but I'm scratching my noggin at the moment.

Any tips would be gratefully received

Pete

[mozzie (Peter)]

hi pete your correct on everything i also have the book and struggle on starry night the way i use it is no computer them nights just the autostar hand controller and manually enter r.a-dec usually when the moon is up and i do a constellation at a time and i right little notes next to each entry and weather i split them or not
mozzie

[Blue Skies (Jacquie)]

That's why Wil Tirion put out a Double Star Atlas, to help people just like you who want to see all these double stars. On the charts he has all those catalogue numbers that are not usually printed on charts. Its not cheap (a good star atlas never is, alas) but well worth it if you're interested in double stars.

The capital sigma is for the elder Struve's catalogue and the S is for James South, apparently, a contemporary of John Herschel, who's own catalogue is the small 'h'. The Cambridge Double Star Atlas has all this.

[Robh (Rob)]

Pete,

The book by Sissy Haas gives the coordinates of each multiple star.
Example in Andromeda, h 5451 has coordinates 00h 31.4m, +33d 35m.
Go to SIMBAD ...
http://simbad.u-strasbg.fr/simbad/

Select search by coordinates and put in the coordinates.
For the star above, the coordinate entry would be 00 31.4 +33 35
HIP 2475 is actually the primary. If you select it, it will give you a whole lot of alternative designations it goes by.
Here, BD+32 81 is the secondary. Click on it and it will show one of the designations as HJ 5451B.

Regards, Rob.

[Coen]

Taki's free double star atlas also has some helpful tips (http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~zs3t-tk/index.htm)

I also use StarCalc (http://www.relex.ru/~zalex/main.htm), CNebulaX (http://www.uv.es/jrtorres/index.html and the excellent TriAtlas that is there) and finally CdC (http://www.ap-i.net/skychart/) with its numerous catalogues (which you have to selectively download and activate separately) allows for cross referencing although I always struggle with its interface.

There is a bit of time involved initially in sorting it all out but it soon becomes easier.

Also don't forget the Washington double star catalogue/database (http://ad.usno.navy.mil/wds/wdstext.html) and its web-page has some more information on various catalogues etc.

Also there is in the double star forum on Cloudy Nights (http://www.cloudynights.com/ubbthrea...0/Board/double) which contains further information.

[ngcles]

Hi Pete,

Good guesses on some but not quite right. All are catalogues of pairs that (generally) are named after the astronomer who made the discovery.

A capital Sigma (Σ) indicates it is a Struve pair -- ie Fredrick von Struve (often seen as STF).

The Capital S is for James South a collaborator with John Herschel who also discovered a great many pairs himself.

h: I've seen a lot of these in the past but now I'm going on memory as to their origin. I think these are John Herschel's pairs as opposed to capital (H) which were his dads. These h are often refered to (again I think) as HJ to avoid confusion between H and h (again that's from memory). Someone with a greater knowledge of catalogues might like to correct me here if I'm wrong ...

A few other common ones (a far from exhaustive list):

A is for Aitken

BU is for Sherburne Burnham (many of these are very close and/or difficult pairs). Not to be confused with Robert Burnham the astro-author.

DUN is for James Dunlop.

HRG Lawrence Hargrave.

I is for Robert Innes (who discovered Proxima Centauri).

ΟΣ is for Otto Struve (Often STT) and his second catalogue ΟΣΣ.

R is for Henry Russell (Sydney Observatory).

RMK is for Carl Rumker.

RST is R.A Rossiter.

and of course WDS is for Washington Double Sars -- the most exhaustive list of all that includes nearly all pairs found in other catalogues.

Beware with the catalogues of pairs when you find them on the net and elsewhere -- they may not be in J2000 coordinates. Some are in earlier epochs and you may have to precess the positions to the current epoch.

That's a starting point at least ...


Best,

Les D

[Enchilada]

Originally Posted by pvelez

Am I the only person to be confused by all the different names for stars?

I'm doing an observation project on double stars at the moment and I've been trawling through the Sissy Haas text Double Stars for Small Telescopes. The book refers to the names of the stars - but then uses a number of different systems to identify them.

Some are easy - alpha [Constellation] and 4 [Constellation] are fairly straightfoward.

Then it gets tricky.

I have stars numbered with a capital sigma (I think) [number]. What is this?

Then there are stars with a capital S [number]. I assume this is a Struve number - is this correct?

And then there are stars maked h [number].

When I try to match these with Starry Night, I can find stars using their HIP number but not much else.

Is there simple way that I can determine the various names of a star so that I can correlate my text with SN? I expect there is a website somewhere that does this but I'm scratching my noggin at the moment.

Any tips would be gratefully received

Pete

Here is an attached pdf list of the important observer pair designations….

As for Haas' really awful book, well…..

I would suggest you get "The Cambridge Double Star Atlas" * and "Observing and Measuring Visual Double Stars" by Bob Argyle and Robert W. Argyle. Useful Extract

* Extract to read (on-line) http://www.cambridge.org/catalogue/c...1493437&ss=exc especially section "Discoverer/catalog/observatory designations"

[Enchilada]

Here is a useful catalogue (attached) of "350 Bright Southern Stars", which might give you a start for targets to seek out.

They are listed in either, R.A., magnitude, constellation or declination.

Another general list in IIS is "110 Southern Sky Doubles" is by Stephen Saber, but has no PA's I.e. http://www.iceinspace.com.au/63-357-0-0-1-0.html

Hope this helps…

[pvelez (Pete)]

Thanks for all the tips guys - very helpful.

Now all I need is for the clouds to go away pronto!

Pete

[pvelez (Pete)]

Originally Posted by Enchilada

Here is an attached pdf list of the important observer pair designations….

As for Haas' really awful book, well…..

Wish I'd canvassed further on this before I went shopping last week!

Pete

[Enchilada]

Originally Posted by Enchilada

As for Haas' really awful book, well…..

IMO

[Parkwood]

Thanks for the "350 Bright Southern Stars" catalogue. Very useful.

One question though. Where did you get this from? I noticed that in the opening page it is the work of Andrew James and he mentioned some other lists in progress.

Has anyone else seen these?

Keith

[Enchilada]

Originally Posted by Parkwood

Thanks for the "350 Bright Southern Stars" catalogue. Very useful.

One question though. Where did you get this from? I noticed that in the opening page it is the work of Andrew James and he mentioned some other lists in progress.

Has anyone else seen these?

Keith

The other lists are forthcoming. Have them on a spreadsheet, but yet to format them properly as pdf. Might do it this weekend.
I've seen all but those above ~0.7 arcsec.

The aim was to produce 2000 pair catalogue, which is 400 south, 400 north, 1200 equatorial - approximates the areas of the sky!

[Enchilada]

I've just sent the updated 350 bright Southern Double Stars V0.0.2, which has some corrections and several minor fixes. (c. 480K in size)

It also has a section at the end on the southern constellations in which these pairs can be found.

I'll try and add the remaining pieces over the weekend.

Hope this is of interest.

[Parkwood]

Thank you for your efforts

I find the lists very useful!

[Enchilada]

Originally Posted by Parkwood

Thank you for your efforts

I find the lists very useful!

Pleased to hear that!!