America's Cup - Gone un-noticed?

Outbackmanyep · #1 09-03-2010, 03:08 PM

I can't believe there wasn't much more coverage on this but the 33rd America's Cup was won by BMW Oracle who beat Alinghi 2-0 in best of 3 series way back on the 14th of February this year, BMW Oracle was a trimaran which was helmed by Australia's own James Spithill.
The twist is that New Zealander Russell Coutts was dumped by Alinghi in 2007 for breach of contract and missed out defending for Switzerland, but Oracle snapped him up, made him CEO and he's won it again!

What gets me is the boats themselves, these things are incredible!
Oracle is 90 feet long and 220 feet high with the BIGGEST mainsail ever put on a yacht, it is twice as big as a 747 wing!
http://www.americascup.com/en/acteur...oracle/photos/

Looks like the next Defence is in San Francisco!

koputai (Jason) · #2 09-03-2010, 03:23 PM

It didn't get much coverage as it was a total farce. Not just the racing, which was two totally different
boats with totally different abilities, but the two years leading up to it was spent in the courts. Just a
non-sportsmanlike waste.

The America's Cup may never recover.

Cheers,
Jason.

Waxing_Gibbous (Peter) · #3 09-03-2010, 03:28 PM

I think the boats are great. Unfortunately, the whole thing has become far too high-tech and corporatised for anyone except the most die-hard swabby. For the competitors themselves, I suppose the thrill remains, but gone are the days when anybody could relate to the contest and Bond and Turner could be relied on for a good barny.

Waxing_Gibbous (Peter) · #4 09-03-2010, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koputai

It didn't get much coverage as it was a total farce. Not just the racing, which was two totally different
boats with totally different abilities, but the two years leading up to it was spent in the courts. Just a
non-sportsmanlike waste.

The America's Cup may never recover.

Cheers,
Jason.

That too!

supernova1965 (Warren) · #5 09-03-2010, 05:13 PM

Yeah needs to get back to the 12 meter boats and I heard a rumour that John Bertrand is trying to get an Australian challenge organised then we might see some more interest. I still remember what I was doing when Australia won I was working at KR in Brisbane and was living at Morningside well when I said I was working I was late to work that morning

stephenb (Stephen) · #6 09-03-2010, 08:25 PM

As a non-boating type, does anyone think the importance and presteige of the America's Cup go down hill after 1982? Some I've spoken to seem to think so also.

supernova1965 (Warren) · #7 09-03-2010, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glenluceskies

As a non-boating type, does anyone think the importance and presteige of the America's Cup go down hill after 1982? Some I've spoken to seem to think so also.

No I think that it started going downhill after Dennis Conner bent the rules to win the cup back when he put a Catamarin against a Mono Hull I mean Really that was the beginning of the downfall in my opinion.

norm · #8 09-03-2010, 09:44 PM

I'm with Jason on this one. Its not so much ability, its basically whose got the deepest pockets and who needs to have the biggest ego.

Norm

Matt Wastell (Matt) · #9 09-03-2010, 10:06 PM

I remember reading a fair bit about the history of the America's Cup after we won it in 82 - the Yanks held it for 132 years up to that point?
In the early days it was very rare to have any spec guidelines - all the boats were very different and the rules always changed to suit the holders (Yanks). It really is no different today!

Waxing_Gibbous (Peter) · #10 10-03-2010, 12:16 AM

I remember the '82 Cup and almost everyone, even in the US, wanted the Assies to win. Mostly 'cuz Ted Turner was such an obnoxious (expletive deleted)who whined and moaned about the keel.

But the Aussies also had "style" and nouse, which counted for a lot, and that made it a real contest. There was something on the radio the other day aboutr how the court basically tore up the rule book.
a) What real business does a (non-admiralty) court have in deciding a yacht race?
and
b) If you're just gonna tear up the rule book you might as well let Hydroplanes or Offshore racers compete, no?

Clarry (Clayton) · #11 10-03-2010, 01:36 AM

Such a shame to see The Cup go down hill the way it has. In 1986, my then girlfriend (now my wife) & I moved to Fremantle for a year to be there for the 1987 America's Cup event. What a great time it was. Fremantle & indeed all of Perth was buzzing with the influx of international & national visitors. Every cafe, restaurant, club, pub and bar was packed every night with people out for a good time. This was a time when the cafe culture was just kicking off here in Aus, and Papa Luigi's in Freo was the epicenter of all things cool. As always there were a few idiots. I remember sitting in the upstairs bistro of the Sail & Anchor hotel one night. Dennis Conner was across the room and a few clowns started making Kookaburra calls at him. He took it well but I felt a bit ashamed at there childish behavoir. Anyway, he had the last laugh with a whitewash of the finals.
My point is, after that year The Cup just seemed to become a farce. Different boats all competing on an uneven playing field. It's a non-event these days and that is a real shame, because that time back in 1986/87 are some of the most cherished memories my wife & I share.

supernova1965 (Warren) · #12 10-03-2010, 07:11 AM

Has anyone seen the Movie The Challenge it came on 2 VCR's great movie I can remember that Lorraine Bailey and Tom Wood played Eileen and Alan Bond. I thought that the Aussies won the cup in 1983

stephenb (Stephen) · #13 10-03-2010, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by supernova1965

Has anyone seen the Movie The Challenge it came on 2 VCR's great movie I can remember that Lorraine Bailey and Tom Wood played Eileen and Alan Bond. I thought that the Aussies won the cup in 1983

did I say 1982? I meant '83 of course, you are quite correct. The brain is not good these days

Looking back and reading the subsequent comments, I think that is correct, obviously the 1983 Aussie win was the catalyst for the downfall, by forcing changes to the rules.

Found this interesting article: http://www.cbssports.com/sailing/americascup/history

supernova1965 (Warren) · #14 10-03-2010, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glenluceskies

Found this interesting article: http://www.cbssports.com/sailing/americascup/history

Interesting article enjoyed it but what happened in 1987,1988 how come there were 2 events 1 year apart or is that a mistake in the chart.

stephenb (Stephen) · #15 10-03-2010, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by supernova1965

Interesting article enjoyed it but what happened in 1987,1988 how come there were 2 events 1 year apart or is that a mistake in the chart.

It must be a typo. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America%27s_cup

taminga16 (Greg) · #16 10-03-2010, 08:56 AM

Sir Frank Packer was once quoted as saying "that speaking to the New York Yacht Club about the rules was akin to complaining to your Mother In-law about your wife".

rider · #17 10-03-2010, 08:59 AM

The America Cup has always been a bit of an embarrassment to sailors, I recon it puts more people off the sport than it gets interested. Its just rich guys puffing testosterone at each other.

Real yacht racing doesnt include law courts, most penalties are taken on the water, using sportsman like behavour. otherwise disagreements are settled by the protest committee.

In this series, Alinghi would be ahead out of the start and then the man who paid the bills would take over the helm.. with the inevitable results. 3-zip to BMW.

Baron Lipton had about 6 goes at getting the cup in the early 1900's and was asked what America Cup racing was like. He anwered that it was like "taking a cold shower whilst burning 20 pound notes."

And I'm just speechless about the stupidity of a little 3 race competition for such a famous event.

Regarding the boats, BMW Oracle was a dog when it had a soft sail, it had so much beam twist that the top third of the sail would get a 45degree twist in a gust. but as soon as they put the solid wing sail on it turned into a different beast entirely. - I bet they wouldn't like to have played with it in 35 knots though.

That said, I LOVE the boats, a 90 footer with two hulls out the water doing 3 times the wind speed is never boring.
In these boats the huge increase in speed you get from a minor wind speed change means that sometimes they have to sail into a knock if the velocity-made-good equation is more efficient. Tactics are very complicated, and decisions have to be made fast.

Hope they don't go back to mono's and tactics based entirely on wind shift. ZZZZzzzzzzz.

BTW, I sail both monos and multihulls so I hope this doesn't start a "Bathtub Verses Raft with trainer wheels" debate.

supernova1965 (Warren) · #18 10-03-2010, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glenluceskies

It must be a typo. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America%27s_cup

Its in this chart as well it calls it a dog match and I thought I knew about all the races proves you can never know everything.

supernova1965 (Warren) · #19 10-03-2010, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rider

The America Cup has always been a bit of an embarrassment to sailors, I recon it puts more people off the sport than it gets interested. Its just rich guys puffing testosterone at each other.

Real yacht racing doesnt include law courts, most penalties are taken on the water, using sportsman like behavour. otherwise disagreements are settled by the protest committee.

In this series, Alinghi would be ahead out of the start and then the man who paid the bills would take over the helm.. with the inevitable results. 3-zip to BMW.

Baron Lipton had about 6 goes at getting the cup in the early 1900's and was asked what America Cup racing was like. He anwered that it was like "taking a cold shower whilst burning 20 pound notes."

And I'm just speechless about the stupidity of a little 3 race competition for such a famous event.

Regarding the boats, BMW Oracle was a dog when it had a soft sail, it had so much beam twist that the top third of the sail would get a 45degree twist in a gust. but as soon as they put the solid wing sail on it turned into a different beast entirely. - I bet they wouldn't like to have played with it in 35 knots though.

That said, I LOVE the boats, a 90 footer with two hulls out the water doing 3 times the wind speed is never boring.
In these boats the huge increase in speed you get from a minor wind speed change means that sometimes they have to sail into a knock if the velocity-made-good equation is more efficient. Tactics are very complicated, and decisions have to be made fast.

Hope they don't go back to mono's and tactics based entirely on wind shift. ZZZZzzzzzzz.

BTW, I sail both monos and multihulls so I hope this doesn't start a "Bathtub Verses Raft with trainer wheels" debate.

If you read John Bertrands book "Born to Win" the actual sailors love it and treat it like it should be they just use the rich folks to enable them to compete in 1983 the sailors only got I think $12 a day for their sailing.

koputai (Jason) · #20 10-03-2010, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by supernova1965

If you read John Bertrands book "Born to Win" the actual sailors
love it and treat it like it should be they just use the rich folks to enable them to compete in 1983
the sailors only got I think $12 a day for their sailing.

The AC sailors love it because they are professional sailors, that's all they do, and they get paid
handsomely for it. $12 a day? Maybe, very maybe, back then. They now get many thousands of
dollars each per day.

This weekend just gone we had the Audi Sydney Harbour Regatta, mostly amateur crews, but I
know one guy in a boat similar to mine that has a pro crew, 8 guys at $15,000 per day. Long gone
are the days of doing big campaigns on a beer budget.

Cheers,
Jason.