Double standards

toryglen-boy (Duncan) · #1 31-08-2009, 03:39 PM

Well, last week i went to the Dept of Immigration, about applying for Citizenship etc. I work in the IT industry, and dont have citizenship (although i do have PR) and i see stacks of jobs i could do, and the last question i always get asked is

"Are you an Australian citizen"

to which i reply "no"

and i get "Oh thats a shame, you must be a citizen to apply so you can get security clearance". Part of my coming here (apart from endless medicals) was a full history, and character check up, for the last 12 years, including a written statement from New Scotland Yard in London reporting my criminal record (which turned out to be a blank piece of headed paper!) and a full background check on me for security (my last job in the UK was in the IT dept of the South West Police Headquarters, in Portishead Somerset, where i had to have rigerous background checks anyway for security reasons) since coming to Australia, i have had to submit the relevant information twice to the AFP again, as part of me going from Temp to PR.

I know citizenship is a priviledge, not a right ... and then this kinda thnig comes along, and just makes me so mad, as last week i was told by an immigration officer that "the rules apply to EVERYONE and cant be bent or modified to suit", well, it seems like all the blurb you get over the phone while on hold to speak to someone at immigration (and i have never been on hold for less than an hour) about "Welcome to Australia, where everyone is equal" and treated "fairly" is a load of old tosh, as it would appear some are more equal than others.

http://au.sports.yahoo.com/news/arti...s-hopes-skater

i dont know what sort of response i will get, posting this on here, with a forum full of Aussies

I just think regardless of nationality, its pretty sickening.

that is all

erick (Eric) · #2 31-08-2009, 03:50 PM

Another wingeing Jock!

How long before you can be "neutralised"? Oh my gosh - is it really four years now? Better stick with the jobs for non-citizens until then? The Australian Citizenship requirement should be in the advertising for the job - or at least - "Must be able to qualify for Federal Government security clearance". Or brush up on your ice-skating?

toryglen-boy (Duncan) · #3 31-08-2009, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erick

Another wingeing Jock!

How long before you can be "neutralised"? Oh my gosh - is it really four years now? Better stick with the jobs for non-citizens until then? The Australian Citizenship requirement should be in the advertising for the job - or at least - "Must be able to qualify for Federal Government security clearance". Or brush up on your ice-skating?

Hi Fella, yeah, its been changed to four years, and TBH, i think thats a good idea, make sure people really stick with it, ya know?

but this ....

pffftttt ....

jjjnettie (Jeanette) · #4 31-08-2009, 03:54 PM

That a darn shame Duncan. If it was up to me you be in like Flynn.
Guess they've got to weed out the wooses who can't stand the heat, the spiders or the snakes then want to go back to mama.

astroron (Ron) · #5 31-08-2009, 03:56 PM

I agree with you Duncan, It unfortunatly happens in most countries USA AND UK ans Australia come to mind, having seen this over the years especialy sports people and people with money

toryglen-boy (Duncan) · #6 31-08-2009, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjjnettie

That a darn shame Duncan. If it was up to me you be in like Flynn.
Guess they've got to weed out the wooses who can't stand the heat, the spiders or the snakes then want to go back to mama.

Thanks mate. i am happy to go the distance, and do the red tape, as i am quite left wing in my beliefs, and just kept thinking "everyone else has to do this, and thats how it is"

but now it would appear that if your good at Sports ...

i mean, out in the World, Australia is known for always punching above its weight, regarding sporting prowess, and rightly so, but at what cost? just ignoring a whole bunch of rules that where put in place to entice the right people, and protect the rights of native Australians?

its a slap in the face for democracy.

toryglen-boy (Duncan) · #7 31-08-2009, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astroron

I agree with you Duncan, It unfortunatly happens in most countries USA AND UK ans Australia come to mind, having seen this over the years especialy sports people and people with money

I know the UK did it years ago with Zola Budd from SA, and that was an utter disgrace as well.

Thats why i put the last line "regardless of Nationality"

erick (Eric) · #8 31-08-2009, 04:00 PM

Wish I could find a clip from "The Games" Episode "Immigration". Sadly not, but this one will have to do:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoBVWZmIMSo

jjjnettie (Jeanette) · #9 31-08-2009, 04:00 PM

It's totally not fair.

chrisp9au (Chris) · #10 31-08-2009, 04:04 PM

Duncan, Australian citizenship is worth any and all hassles!

You're right, it's a privilege not a right, it's not given, it's earned.

I'm a Pommie Aussie, became an Australian citizen in 1988, and am very very proud of the bit of paper that says I'm an Ozzie!

Cheers

Chris

Note to moderators, we need an new icon, waving an Ozzie flag!

PCH (Paul) · #11 31-08-2009, 04:40 PM

Yep, I'm with Chris....

and I have never even been back for a holiday in 20 years.

I've seen a couple of programs on TV (which MUST be for amusement value only - surely!) that show the famous whinging poms heading off back 'home' because the spiders are bigger and the sausages aren't the same etc etc.

I must say, that while I hate to hear people whinging - about anything, I always thought it was unfair to single poms alone out for whinging. I mean, - how do we know the Hungarians and Greeks aren't whinging about the same things as well ? They might well be, but of course, no one can tell

In fact the only people that probably aren't whinging are the ones that sneak in the top end and seem to get their residency issues sorted out with some haste. Which brings me back onto Duncan's point. There might be a tip for you there Duncan. Get yourself a canoe and float offshore a bit and wait to get picked up by HMAS Unlimitedcash. Or sank ...depending on where we are in the budgetary cycle

Hope it works out for you

stephenb (Stephen) · #12 31-08-2009, 05:09 PM

I agree Duncan, it stinks. But welcome to Australia, where our sporting athletes are held up as pillars of society and given endless amounts of money and accolades.

Stick with it, because only once you are an Aussie citizen, the Scottish jokes will stop (how was copper wire invented?... etc etc).

I'd rather 2 of you in exchange for some more of our useless citizens (our "Golgafrincham" useless 1/3).

AstralTraveller (David) · #13 31-08-2009, 05:21 PM

Duncan,

It all looks totally fair to me. As far as I can see she is much better looking than you and will boost Aust. sporting profile... Surely that is all that matters.

Seriously, it's a crying shame when people who would be a credit to the country are excluded. I've seen it before. The last one I know of was a bloke from Mozambique who had just completed a PhD on a new type of welding (combined laser and gas). The technique is promising but needs more development. You'd think 'they' would want to keep him here, give him a post-doc and let him help Aust become the 'clever country' we are supposed to be.

On the other hand, and not to discount your experience, an Irish bloke I know who moved out here 3-4 years ago had a somewhat different experience. His comment was not about the rules but the attitude of immigration staff. He was standing in queues that were too long (as you do) and so had a chance to see how others were treated. He felt that as soon as he said he was from Ireland everything became much easier. Doors opened and processes flowed more smoothly than they did for others. That isn't right of course but he wasn't about to complain.

At least we aren't Switzerland. A bloke I know from there assures me you need to have relatives in an archaeological dig to get citizenship.

Finally (sorry about the rant), I'm glad they let my grandparents in, otherwise you wouldn't be reading this post.

mozzie (Peter) · #14 31-08-2009, 05:23 PM

stick with it duncan its a great place to live and call home
mozzie

DavidU (Dave) · #15 31-08-2009, 05:26 PM

I see where your comming from Duncan. My wife and I spent 2 years helping 2 friends of ours become citizens. The ammount of red tape and dicking around was woefull.
I hope you can be an Aussie. We need clever people.

matt · #16 31-08-2009, 05:30 PM

Hang in there, Duncan.

I went through the 'process' a few years ago and fully understand what you're talking about. I'd lived here 25 years before deciding to go through with it. Already a taxpayer....attended high school and uni here... etc etc

The hoops you have to jump through are quite extraordinary...and it feels like different people in the same department aren't talking to each other

But I got there in the end and the day on which my citizenship was confirmed was bloody exciting! Well worth the effort and time invested.

I look at that citizenship certificate today, framed and hanging on my wall, knowing what it means to have been granted citizenship, and it's something I hold in massive regard and pride.

Just stick with the process. One step at a time. You'll get there eventually.

Good luck, mate.

Karls48 (Karl) · #17 31-08-2009, 05:49 PM

Look at the bright side of it. Lot of countries require that you are resident for 10 years or longer before you can become citizen. I become naturalised it in 1973 and it was fairly easy. All what I have to do was to answer few questions about Australia and memorise Oath of Allegiance to the Queen.

Fossil (Jonathan) · #18 31-08-2009, 05:55 PM

Hang in there Duncan, it's worth it in the end.

My Dad moved the family out here back in '66, and it was the best thing he ever did. I can't think of anywhere in the world I'd rather be.

Even holidays are spent here, we hook up the caravan and head off somewhere different. I can't wait until we retire and we can spend the rest of our days travelling this wide brown land.

GrahamL · #19 31-08-2009, 06:54 PM

I think imigration is a positive thing for any country , but Duncans point is a very valid one people are able to jump the line with ease these days and thats just not right.. I'll buy we need more tennis players and Ice skaters (we do have lots of ice here) granted citizenship because they .. um ..well .. I'm sure they bring something positive with them

..

But the guy who has managed to keep his family safe and together in some god forsaken refugee camp needs that same roll of the dice that another who is cashed up enough to buy a way out gets .. I'm not sure that always happens.

dpastern (Dave Pastern) · #20 31-08-2009, 06:58 PM

Well, I look at it as blatant discrimination, based on nationality. What should happen is thoes that are *best* fit for the job, irrespective of sex, religion, political beliefs, nationality, etc, are given a fair chance.

Whatever happened to the Aussie spirit of "fair go" I might ask?

I lay the blame to all of this firmly at John Howard's feet. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, he's a racist bugger. But then, as my dad would say, so are most Australians. Now, before you all go and chew my head off for this comment, consider this - my father was a migrant to Australia, and has had to deal with people deliberately not wanting to understand him for a long time (because of his accent). It seems to be some sort of fun game amongst many people. I'm sure Aussies are no different to other countries natives greeting migrants I might add. Discrimination is built into human nature unfortunately, and it's one of our uglier habits.

Dave