What would you do?

AstralTraveller (David) · #1 21-06-2009, 08:14 PM

I have to make a decision and I thought I would canvas some views from the good and wise people on IIS. There has been a new position created where I work and it would be a promotion but do I want it? Should I apply?

At the moment I am the 'professional officer' in the geochemistry labs at uni. There being only one general staff member in the labs I am the instrument tech and so I run and repair various instruments; calibrate the data from the instruments I use; supervise other users (mostly post grads but also some visiting academics); teach most of those how to use the instrument(s); do most of the purchasing, liaising, OH&S and other admin; look after the lab computers etc etc. It's a good job but I do feel too often that I am on a treadmill and that I too often have to disappoint people who want - and generally rightly expect - me to provide them assistance in a timely manner. That gets me down. On the oher hand I'm involved in science that I enjoy. I get to see careers develop, meet some interesting people and see data I've generated published in journals.

The new job is 'School manager' and that person would be my boss. The logic of creating the position is that the school is now large enough to warrent a high-level administrative support. This person would relieve the administrative load from academics and so free them up to do what they really should be doing - teaching and research. There is veritable plethora of tasks on the duty statement but how many of them will be actually done by the manager and how many the manager will just make sure someone else does is yet to be seen. Some of my more unpleasant tasks are supposed to be moved to the manager but I'll believe it when it happens. The person who does the equivalent job in another academic unit reckons they do virtually no routine work but basically just problem solve, which sounds OK, but they also spend a lot of time on committees and at meetings. There is also the certainty of being involved in difficult personnel management issues. We have just has a situation where some people were forced out and I can't see why it won't happen again at some point in the future.

Of course there are extra $$ involved. I'd be looking at about $10,000pa now but it would get out to $20,000 after 10 years. That's not be sneezed at, especially for someone who started full-time employment fairly late in life.

What would you do????

dannat (Daniel) · #2 21-06-2009, 08:19 PM

do what will be more satisfying - don't worry about the money

if you're happy fixing instruments ( i was when worked as lab tech) than meetings stay - if you feel you could make change by attending meetings then apply for new job

mozzie (Peter) · #3 21-06-2009, 08:24 PM

money isnt everything being happy with your job and life is way more important im a brickie work for myself work hard my own boss love it
mozzie

Dennis · #4 21-06-2009, 08:34 PM

Do you relish admin work, committee work, attending meetings, dealing with difficult personnel issues, the prospect of inheriting your “unpleasant tasks”, engaging in work place politics with the bigger players, etc.

Or…

Are you a techie at heart who loves playing around with equipment and performing “real” work transactions as opposed to perhaps spending your energy looking good, posturing and pleasing managers further up the food chain?

If you can see yourself succeeding in the new position and are stimulated by that vision and the potential challenges, then it is worth considering. However, you mentioned something about “full-time employment fairly late in life” – does this (possibly?) indicate to you that as you have not made a bid for management type roles earlier in your career, these types of roles might not be in your blood? What is the management culture like?

Are you attracted to the challenges of the new role in both heart and mind, with a passion, or just because it is there?

It might be worth considering any replies you receive from your post as potential interview questions and attempt to answer them on that basis, using the key selection criteria in the position description?

Anyhow, good luck and best wishes in whatever course of action you decide upon, I’m sure either career can be worthy and stimulating from any kind of self review.

Cheers

Dennis

Baddad (Marty) · #5 21-06-2009, 08:50 PM

Hi Astral T,

Its something worth thinking about, your new boss. You have been in a job for sometime and a newbie comes along. Can you tolerate that? Someone new laying the rules to you.

Or is it better that you take the job and become the boss over what you are familiar with.

I have been in those situations. It takes a very good boss to be in charge of people more qualified than the boss and maintain good relations and motivate and maintain good morale.

Cheers Marty

AstralTraveller (David) · #6 22-06-2009, 07:06 PM

Thanks for the replies. Most of what you say I have thought about but it's still nice to hear it from someone else.

Dennis you said, 'Are you attracted to the challenges of the new role in both heart and mind, with a passion, or just because it is there?'. Someone else said almost the same words today. One of the things I've been asking myself is what would constitute job satisfaction. One thing that I've realised is that I wouldn't want to be a manager of anywhere else. Certainly not Arts nor Commerce, not even Biology or Chemistry (despite having a major in chem). I might consider an earth-science dept elsewhere but at the moment I feel I can't leave Wollongong (despite the skies). So I suppose the satisfaction would be seeing the place run well and going forward but of course that isn't solely up to me, and could even happen depite my 'contribution'.

Marty, exactly that question has been much on my mind. Even more so in that the leadup to the creation of the position included an external review by a manger of another faculty. It was met but almost universal condemnation by academics and general staff alike. Amongst other problems, they simply didn't realise the specialisation amoungst our staff and what was involved in any sort of technical work. I'm sure they won't employ anyone so naive but I still fear they will get a generic manager who then has to learn the ropes. A couple of academics have said I would be a good candidate because I know most of the business of the school. So another source of satifaction might be looking after our other general staff. Personnally I am fairly well protected because my position was created specifically to work for one academic and he is very possesive and an OK person to work for.

I spent yesterday thinking this through and my inclination is to not apply. I think I'm a tech rather than a manager. But strangely this evening I'm back to applying. I think it will be a real soul-searching week.

Dennis · #7 22-06-2009, 07:18 PM

There’s nothing wrong with applying, with good intentions, to see where the journey takes you. If along the way you get offered the position but then decide that you don’t want it, that’s fine – they will have 2nd and 3rd fall back candidates.

As long as you do things professionally and gracefully, it is okay to change your mind – you’re in charge!

Good luck!

Dennis

Marclau (Marcel) · #8 22-06-2009, 07:31 PM

Like others have said, dont work for the money...........I made that mistake many years ago and thankfully, learnt the lesson after 12 months and my old employer took me back.........

If you can, find your passion and take it from there. So my question to you is; where does your passion lie??? Good luck and choose well Grasshopper !!

Bassnut (Fred) · #9 22-06-2009, 08:17 PM

Whats the atmosphere difference generally between a school and uni ? (a lot I wouldve thought), does it matter?

erick (Eric) · #10 22-06-2009, 08:41 PM

Usually I would say there is nothing to be lost by applying. Just attempting to prepare the application - responding to the key job criteria - can be a useful experience. That may help you decide whether you have a good application to submit. If you then go forward, getting to a shortlist and going through interview can also be useful. If you have the attitude that it's no problem if you don't get the job, you will probably find it all a benefit. Challenge comes if you are offered the position - then you have to consider the outcome if you decline. You still have to work with the interview panel that offered you the job and you declined their offer.

I said "usually" because something very similar happened for me two years ago and I didn't apply. Probably driven by my view that I only have another five or so years to full or partial retirement so why do I need more managerial worries in my life?

Gallifreyboy · #11 22-06-2009, 08:52 PM

Come on guys, this is an astronomy forum. Have a look at the Takahashi, SBIG, RCOS and whatever other equipment websites you want and work out how long until the new position gets you what you want (allowing a small deduction for your significant other's bribe/gift to disguise your own expenditure)

xelasnave · #12 22-06-2009, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AstralTraveller

I have to make a decision and I thought I would canvas some views from the good and wise people on IIS. There has been a new position created where I work and it would be a promotion but do I want it? Should I apply?

At the moment I am the 'professional officer' in the geochemistry labs at uni. There being only one general staff member in the labs I am the instrument tech and so I run and repair various instruments; calibrate the data from the instruments I use; supervise other users (mostly post grads but also some visiting academics); teach most of those how to use the instrument(s); do most of the purchasing, liaising, OH&S and other admin; look after the lab computers etc etc. It's a good job but I do feel too often that I am on a treadmill and that I too often have to disappoint people who want - and generally rightly expect - me to provide them assistance in a timely manner. That gets me down. On the oher hand I'm involved in science that I enjoy. I get to see careers develop, meet some interesting people and see data I've generated published in journals.

The new job is 'School manager' and that person would be my boss. The logic of creating the position is that the school is now large enough to warrent a high-level administrative support. This person would relieve the administrative load from academics and so free them up to do what they really should be doing - teaching and research. There is veritable plethora of tasks on the duty statement but how many of them will be actually done by the manager and how many the manager will just make sure someone else does is yet to be seen. Some of my more unpleasant tasks are supposed to be moved to the manager but I'll believe it when it happens. The person who does the equivalent job in another academic unit reckons they do virtually no routine work but basically just problem solve, which sounds OK, but they also spend a lot of time on committees and at meetings. There is also the certainty of being involved in difficult personnel management issues. We have just has a situation where some people were forced out and I can't see why it won't happen again at some point in the future.

Of course there are extra $$ involved. I'd be looking at about $10,000pa now but it would get out to $20,000 after 10 years. That's not be sneezed at, especially for someone who started full-time employment fairly late in life.

What would you do????

I would ask for input from folk on a forum such as IIS

alex

Jen · #13 22-06-2009, 10:59 PM

Keep doing what ya enjoy doing Astral

Glenhuon (Bill) · #14 23-06-2009, 12:15 AM

I can only relate my own experience in moving from a hands on role to management. I was lucky that the job involved both "sides of the fence" so to speak. It gave me an insight into how the other half live, but still allowed me to get out in the field and get the hands dirty on occasion. I had good colleagues and still had a relationship with the guys (and girl) in the field. Had I been stuck behind a desk all the time I would have hated it. The one thing I did find was that it gave me the opportunity to implement some of the changes I had seen as needed while on the tools and did'nt have the authority for.

That said, do what makes you happy and gives satisfaction, money and position are'nt everything.

Bill

"You never get stressed Bill" "Stressed ? This company does'nt have enough money to pay me to get stressed" Me

Baddad (Marty) · #15 23-06-2009, 08:31 AM

Hi Astral T,

I'm sure they won't employ anyone so naive but I still fear they will get a generic manager who then has to learn the ropes. A couple of academics have said I would be a good candidate because I know most of the business of the school.

The above is my point exactly. I think you are ready for a step up.

Just speaking for myself: I was in a technical trade, Radar and radio repair. I found it quite rewarding. I was promoted to management eventually and found that even better. I was never on the bench any more but I was kind of like a teacher manager.

I had apprentices and veteran tradies. I wrote reports on subordinates. I helped them in personal problems as far as I could. I passed on recomendations to higher management.

That's what management is all about. I found it more rewarding than at the bench. I felt I was contributing to production and maintaining high morale.

Cheers Marty

Baddad (Marty) · #16 23-06-2009, 08:40 AM

Hi Glenhuon and Astral T,

The one thing I did find was that it gave me the opportunity to implement some of the changes I had seen as needed while on the tools and did'nt have the authority for.

What Glenhuon has said, above, is just one of those reasons I found satisfaction in a managerial position. I reinforce what he says.

Cheers Marty

AstralTraveller (David) · #17 23-06-2009, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bassnut

Whats the atmosphere difference generally between a school and uni ? (a lot I wouldve thought), does it matter?

Sorry, I should have been clearer. The School is an academic unit within the Uni - School of Earth and Environmental Sciences. When they merged the old Dept of Geology with Dept of Geography we became the School of Geosciences. Then we absorbed the Enviro Science Unit to get to our present name. Want any redundant letterheads??

At least it all occurred over a decade, I've heard of Gov't departments whos name has not lasted a month!!

TrevorW · #18 23-06-2009, 02:49 PM

Go into admin the science will go out the door

do what you enjoy money is secondary

AstralTraveller (David) · #19 07-07-2009, 10:20 AM

Well .... the application is in. Of course I can still withdraw at any time but I'm over the first hurdle. Unfortunately I procrastinated too long on Saturday and Sunday morning and wound up finishing it in a huge hurry late Sunday night. I woke up on Monday thinking 'OMG did I really write that?' and I'm pretty down on myself at the moment. If I read that c**p I'd just throw the application out. At least I've reduced the danger of having to make a final decision.