It's Vinyl time!

erick (Eric) · #1 08-04-2009, 11:57 AM

OK, who has still got the vinyl thing happening?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...08/2537924.htm

http://www.vinylfactory.com.au/da/32544

http://www.zenithrecords.org/

I haven't bought new vinyl for a long, long time. Have bought lots of school fete 50 cent specials - probably wish I hadn't - except for "Thriller" and "Cosmo's Factory" which were in good nick.

Still spin several LPs if I have a quiet Sunday at home. Getting up to flip over every 20-25min is good exercise!

Omaroo (Chris Malikoff) · #2 08-04-2009, 12:01 PM

I still have boxes and boxes of vinyl Eric. I plan to get another decent turntable one day and record/digitise the lot. Great fun!

Even though it's all probably available via some online store of repository (for the public domain stuff) I reckon it'd be great to digitise a record with the inherent noise.

erick (Eric) · #3 08-04-2009, 12:05 PM

Here is a good digital vs analogue, CD vs vinyl fight!

http://gadgets.boingboing.net/2008/0...rs-on-why.html

beefking (Nathan) · #4 08-04-2009, 01:37 PM

I have been buying a few albums on vinyl recently - mainly stuff that I really like and want to hear on a turntable. Mainly Wilco and Radiohead, but I've branched out and got some Bon Iver, Isis and REM as well. Also, my only copy of The Go-Between's "16 Lovers Lane" is on vinyl.

Intellectually, I know that CDs have better sound quality, but there is something different about music from a turntable. I like the size of the format as well - it's easier to appreciate cover art and it feels more like an owned object than an mp3.

I bought Abbey Road on vinyl a few months ago, and I think it's the perfect way to hear that album - Side B is amazing and the anticipation doesn't build nearly as much without the manual flip-over of the record.

Baddad (Marty) · #5 08-04-2009, 01:46 PM

Hey Eric,

Here is a good digital vs analogue, CD vs vinyl fight!

Its a debate. Right you are. Their arguments are not from well informed sources. The points they forward are almost comical at times.

Now I see why the emoticon "

" is at the end of your statement.

I took all my vinyls to the dump years ago. After I had obtained by hook or crook digitised copies. I also remastered many of them myself.

Remastering is easier than astronomy and setting up scopes.

Cheers Marty

erick (Eric) · #6 08-04-2009, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baddad

I took all my vinyls to the dump years ago.

koputai (Jason) · #7 08-04-2009, 04:01 PM

And I thought I was being old fashioned buying older CD's lately!
After years of listening to mp3's, last month I built a new audio system in the loungeroom and was appalled by the sound of the mp3's through a good system. Now I'm buying up CD's and ripping them to .flac, or sometimes downloading albums in .flac if they're available.
I still have all my old vinyl, stored away in my Grandmothers garage. One day I'll have them all on CD or lossless digital format..........

Cheers,
Jason.

Baddad (Marty) · #8 08-04-2009, 04:46 PM

Hey Jason,

was appalled by the sound of the mp3's through a good system.

MP3's are as good as what the original copy was minus the amount of compression. For a reasonably good copy it should be at about 128k. 300 k and up is becoming overkill. 128k refers to the sampling rate.

What happens is; to shrink info, they truncate the music information above 16khz. That reduces the file size then its compressed. We can't hear above 16khz anyway. Microphones can pick it up if they are a super quality. Speakers of high quality can reproduce it. Really makes almost no difference to the ear.

MP3 at 128k rate has no info above 16khz. It is about the lowest to go for Hi Fi. MP3 at 160k does have some info above 16khz. 220k has more.

MP3 rate below 128k is no longer Hi Fi. and is done because the file is smaller. and more files can be placed onto recording mediums. At 90k music quality suffers and can easily be detected on average Hi Fi systems. Below 50k voice starts changing distinctly.

There are programs that you can use to check what the compression ratio and quality happens to be.

Original CD recorded quality can vary as well. That is a bit different.

So MP3's can maintain all of the original recorded quality. But that depends on what rate it is compressed to.

If you like PM me and I can help you out a little. I have a number of relevant tools in my armoury.

I can even check the recorded quality of tracks on CD's.

Cheers Marty

erick (Eric) · #9 08-04-2009, 04:59 PM

Off on a tangent, sorry.

Marty, would you please translate this information about the audio on Pink Floyd's PULSE DVD. I find I can use the 640kbps stream on my DVD player. What does this mean in teams of kHz? (or does it mean anything in terms of kHz??)

"Pulse should please audiophiles, who have the option of toggling between two types of Dolby Digital 5.1 Surround sound: a standard 448kbps bitstream or a 640kbps output for higher-end DVD players."

Starkler (Geoff) · #10 08-04-2009, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baddad

MP3 rate below 128k is no longer Hi Fi. and is done because the file is smaller. and more files can be placed onto recording mediums. At 90k music quality suffers and can easily be detected on average Hi Fi systems. Below 50k voice starts changing distinctly.

128k is ok for portable devices for rock/pop music imo. On any half decent hifi, a higher rate is very desirable, especially if the music has a big dynamic range.

acropolite (Phil) · #11 08-04-2009, 05:45 PM

That reminds me, I still have a direct drive turntable and a couple of cartridges with decent stylii, I must drag out my box of Lp's and rip them.

sheeny (Al) · #12 08-04-2009, 05:47 PM

Oh, you're talking records!

I still have about a dozen records stashed away somewhere... I haven't bothered with them since CDs and my turntable needle was ruined and I wasn't able to get new one. Though I didn't try real hard.

MP3's are fine on the iPOD and the puter, but nothing but CD cuts it on my current sound system. When my old stereo died I bought a new Denon surround system. I put on one of my favourite Floyd albums when I set it up and I was very disappointed with the poor quailty of the sound, until I realised that what I was hearing was Dave Gilmour dragging his fingers along the strings between notes.

You don't hear that on an MP3!

Al.

koputai (Jason) · #13 08-04-2009, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baddad

So MP3's can maintain all of the original recorded quality. But that depends on what rate it is compressed to.

Hi Marty,
Yeah, I know how it all works (have worked in pro and broadcast for many years), but I have always listened to mp3 on small equipment. When I played them on my new home system (well into five figures) I was amazed at how crap they sounded, even 320k mp3's. No mp3 is as good as the original, no matter how much bandwidth you throw at it. Lossless is the only way to have a true copy of the original.
Have a read of this, but more importantly look at the spectrum graphs.
http://www.stereophile.com/features/308mp3cd/
Very interesting reading.

Cheers,
Jason.

marki · #14 08-04-2009, 07:08 PM

I still have a stack of vinyl around lying around including some of the more desirable beetles albums. My turntable still works as well

Mark

Baddad (Marty) · #15 08-04-2009, 07:41 PM

Hey Jason.

I used to repair that type of equipment and when CD's came out a lot of the test equipment needed to be upgraded. The CD's went beyond the measuring range. Signal / signal+noise ratios, Distortion figures etc.

Once figures of around 100db are introduced it becomes extremely difficult for the human ear. The CD exposed the short comings of earlier professional original tape recordings.

My main point is the CD only improved the second stongest link in the Hi Fi chain.
The strongest being the amplifier. Speaker systems are the weak link.

Without going into MP3's too deeply. I wonder if the original recording was at fault? The figures in that web link indicate very small losses and would be hard to detect without good test equipment. 130db+ is a lot. Human hearing is not that good.

Vinyl recordings on average were 55-70db Sig/Noise and all the other figures matched about same. 80db was a special pressing of vinyl. The fact the pickup needle wore into the vinyl was the reason that CD research was instigated.

Up market tape decks were just a fraction under performance figures of vinyl records.

All that aside if you want some special help pm me.

Cheers Marty

Lee · #16 08-04-2009, 07:52 PM

I have tried to convince myself that CD, or lossless codecs are better than MP3/AAC, but my ears certainly cannot in little blinded listening trials I have done....
The argument of vinyl vs digital and valve vs solid state amplification is akin to comparing religions! People are very difficult to convert....
I'm off to build my nice little 5W/channel SE valve amp on Friday.....

Jen · #17 08-04-2009, 08:29 PM

oh yes i love my vinyls i have quite a collection
When i was waitressing 5 years ago they have an original jukebox in the restaurant so half of my 45's are still in it which you have just reminded me its time for them to give em back to me or pay me for the profits that they get from it 3 songs for $1

It wasnt that long ago my 14 year old daughter came up to me and said mum what are records

acropolite (Phil) · #18 08-04-2009, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Up market tape decks were just a fraction under performance figures of vinyl records

I still have one such casette tape machine the Yamaha K2000, it had dbx noise reduction and the dynamic range and S/N ratio was better than vinyl and as good as CD i.e. over 100bd S/N and dynamic range.
The only downside was distortion, although the figures were very good, in an A-B comparison with an original CD the slight distortion from the tape deck was evident.

GrahamL · #19 08-04-2009, 09:07 PM

I think vinyl is better... I promise ...every time I get up and turn the CD over ... the sucker just wont freakin play!!!!!.. without me... messin with it some more !!!...RCA diamond tips

rock!!

gman (Grant) · #20 08-04-2009, 09:40 PM

Talking about vinyl, I hooked my turntable upto an amp.
Then wired up from the Amp headphone jack into the microphone input of the computer sound card and used a program called Goldwave to convert all my vinyl to mp3.

Takes ages as you have to play the record but it was a heap of fun
So many memories sprang to life dragging out the old Eric Clapton, Muddy Waters, Black Sabbath and much much more albums.
I used to DJ for the local Blue Light disco back in 82 to 85 and have boxes of old 45's that brough back a flush of memories also.

I personally like a smige of crackle and pop and I am not sure if warmth is the right word to use when listening to vinyl.
There is just something about vinyl that CD's just cant recreate, maybe it is only relative to the memory??
Anyway, I love vinyl