Thread Closure Over The Top

mick pinner · #1 19-03-2009, 08:27 PM

sorry Paul, l see the closed thread on the alcopop tax as social comment not a political statement, the fact that statements from government were used does not make the subject political. if you see it that way then this is moderation gone mad, sorry again nothing personal. the subject matter is one of the major concerns of society in terms of our children and should be debated amongst everyone.

marki · #2 19-03-2009, 08:56 PM

Agree with Mick. Politics be dammed, the real issue is "what about the kids right"?

Mark

PCH (Paul) · #3 19-03-2009, 11:37 PM

Gotta be honest. I thought closing that thread was censorship gone barmy. The mods have a job to do which is not always appreciated, I'm aware of that. But general chat means just that I would have thought, and this is a very hot topic right now imho.

Cheers,

Astro78 · #4 20-03-2009, 12:33 PM

Binge drinking is a massive problem in Australia, MASSIVE. It's a side of Australian culture that i'm not proud of.

Binge drinking is a recourse that is gained at a young age.

When any group or individual tackle a large and powerful lobby for what's right, I'm proud to be a human being in this day and age.

avandonk · #5 20-03-2009, 02:16 PM

The rather large elephant in the room is that all these very bad habits are more ingrained when learned early. All drugs do far more damage to a brain that is not fully mature. That is not to say that all drugs damage your brain mature or not. It is all a matter of degree.

The alcohol peddlers that mix alcohol with lolly water and caffeine are not stupid. This is purely designed to appeal to teenagers with tastes that abhor 'adult' drinks such as beer and straight spirits and even wine that is not sweet.

I really enjoy drinking alcohol but thankfully I could not stand the taste until I was 22. I am now nearly sixty and almost a grandfather.

I will say this again. The damage of even moderate drinking is far worse for brain development at a very young age than even binge drinking at a more mature age.

This is not political. It is about a real problem where judgement is totally lacking due to drink and young people find themselves in major trouble because of a very stupid act that will forever impinge on their lives.

All the government attempted to do was tax these alcopops at the same rate volumetrically as all other alcoholic beverages.

Bert

Barrykgerdes · #6 20-03-2009, 04:18 PM

Just as well I wasn't sitting on the cross bench. I would have wanted a amendment. Increase the tax to 75% and fix the maximum price of the drink. With no profit margin it would soon be off the market. Is that a political remark or a shot at the manufacturers.

Barry

Jen · #7 20-03-2009, 05:33 PM

im staying out of this one i like my alcopops

strongmanmike (Michael) · #8 20-03-2009, 06:41 PM

Have to agree re the moderation, we don't want to become a politically censored gone mad group, the post re the Parliament bill was very worthy of a discussion as the above posts show. Moderators need to avoid being over sensitive and too cautious in the open forum, we are all grownups here.

Gratuitous bagging of a political party or individual for favouring one political party over another is another story.
I do love all the moderators though...a man love

Mike

marki · #9 20-03-2009, 06:55 PM

As an educator of children I have seen the effect of alcopops on teenagers as young as 13 years old. It is so very destructive for developing youth who have not come to terms with the changes occuring in their bodies let alone their minds. What is worse is many parents sanction drinking by allowing teenagers to have parties with alcohol supplied. I know this for a fact (for some reason kids tend to talk to me about these things

). At the risk of being political we need to remember that both alcohol and tabacco producers have powerful lobbies. The effect of the extra tax had shown a sharp decrease in the purchase of these drinks (although no one specifically mentioned youth it would be a reasonable assumption) so why stop it? I am not a wowser in any way, I drink bourbon by the tonne and smoke like the proverbial steam train. If I have to pay an increased tax to feed my addictions so be it as long as it protects our vunerable youth.

Mark

h0ughy (David) · #10 20-03-2009, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strongmanmike

.............
I do love all the moderators though...a man love

Mike

Mike you do worry me

- glad i wont bump into you on a dark night LOL, oh wait SPSP is coming up

Starkler (Geoff) · #11 20-03-2009, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strongmanmike

Gratuitous bagging of a political party

Is inevitable.

Perhaps from a moderation perspective the effort required to keep such potentially volatile posts off the forum isnt worth the effort.

stephenb (Stephen) · #12 20-03-2009, 08:17 PM

I strongly disagree with the closure of the thread concerned. That was blatant censorship and moderation gone over the absolute top. A pretty poor effort. Bad, bad error of judgment, in my opinion. This was a topic which has a broad social problem and I feel it is positive to discuss such things in an open forum such as IIS

Dennis · #13 20-03-2009, 09:45 PM

In reading the OP and this new thread, I couldn’t help but reflect that in my experience from working in teams of people for most of my life, when “something needs to be said to someone”, by far the most successful approach has been to approach that person one on one, provided it wasn’t a criminal or life-and-death matter!

When that does fail, or we are left unsatisfied, then the matter can be escalated through various channels but usually, the private and personal approach succeeds so very well.

A moderator has made a decision which we may or may not agree with. Wearing their “moderator’s hat”, they judged that a particular post had the potential to clash with the TOS? or perhaps descend into a verbal stoush? Maybe they just had a bad day or made an error of judgement?

I would like to think that if I were a moderator (heaven forbid!), out of courtesy, if someone thinks I have made a boo boo or been too heavy handed, a PM might be a good starting point rather than a public outcry!

Take it easy on the mods eh. Freedom of speech is important and writing our thoughts about the subject matter is one thing. But surely phrases like “censorship gone barmy”, “politically censored gone mad group” and “moderation gone over the absolute top” are themselves perhaps a teensy weensy bit extreme?

We are far, far from being a “politically censored gone mad group”.

Cheers

Dennis

PCH (Paul) · #14 20-03-2009, 11:34 PM

Well then, perhaps the, or any, mod could have been on by this point having consulted with other mods, and re-stated or reconsidered the point!

Would that be a reasonable, less barmy, thing to say?

Astro78 · #15 21-03-2009, 12:12 AM

Taking the time to say; hope that my participating in this thread doesn't mean an anti against the mods. Love this site, i really do. Well the community more, but the site rocks all the same.

reminds me of a 2012 thread that got cut, not that i'm a believer, but still found not being able to discuss a little suss.....joking...kinda

Wanna say Jen you drink your alcopops and hope you didn't take offense.

Freedom is what I and those whom I truly respect stand for. Not in a war sense but it aint free

Jen · #16 21-03-2009, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by h0ughy

Mike you do worry me

- glad i wont bump into you on a dark night LOL, oh wait SPSP is coming up

Tandum (Robin) · #17 21-03-2009, 03:22 AM

Censored ... I made a comment somewhere in some thread that it was pissing down and they removed the word pissing.... and failed to warn me that it was offensive or against some forum law. I dunno why we contribute here, honestly .... It's all getting too over the top.

Dog Star (Phil) · #18 21-03-2009, 03:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Astro78

Taking the time to say; hope that my participating in this thread doesn't mean an anti against the mods. Love this site, i really do. Well the community more, but the site rocks all the same.

reminds me of a 2012 thread that got cut, not that i'm a believer, but still found not being able to discuss a little suss.....joking...kinda

Wanna say Jen you drink your alcopops and hope you didn't take offense.

Freedom is what I and those whom I truly respect stand for. Not in a war sense but it aint free

Agree with everything you say Astro!
I too was a bit disappointed with the locking of the 2012 thread as well. Actually, a couple of these type threads have been locked. I'm not a believer either but it seems to me that whenever someone wanders in here asking about Nibiru (or whatever it is) or the 2012 prophecy, that the thread is locked down pretty smartly. This is a shame as a couple of these people seemed to me to be genuinely looking for answers or information and obviously thought that they had come to the right place to ask.
Surely it would be better to discuss these fancies in a calm and logical manner and provide some genuine education as opposed to using ridicule and locked threads. Rudely rubbishing peoples beliefs or treating their questions with disdain doesn't quite cut the mustard with me.
"To inform, educate and entertain", is a noble and worthy mandate.
Pity we couldn't live up to it just a little more often.

Enchilada · #19 21-03-2009, 06:29 AM

Frankly, the moderators should have just pulled the post if they didn't like it. Then the should have contacted the poster, and request then to rephrase the question or response. Instead they closed the thread and left the remarks there for all to see, and no one is really sure what actual remark crossed the line.
One thing I am finding very difficult is understanding where the line here is drawn, because in the last few closed threads have sent the idea that the goal posts are always moving. I.e. 2012 Debate thread being oddly silenced, while the Intelligent Design debate of the 05-01-2007 was allowed http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...lligent+design , but the one of 12-02-2006 was closed because it was deemed to have "got personal." http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...lligent+design
Clearly the degree of moderation seems to have become far more 'sensitive' of late.
I suppose it might be an some odd Newcastle-based thing or the rise of neo-Australian conservatism placing the fear of not being politically correct. IMO the TOS of "trying to encourage a family atmosphere and sense of community" might be setting the bar too high. But that is truly my opinion.
In the end I still don't really understand it fully.

(I'm still now worried if my editing is still up to scratch, or that what I say meet is elusive standard. Probably offended someone or even the moderators, so in advance, many apologies.)

iceman (Mike) · #20 21-03-2009, 06:52 AM

Right so now people think this thread is a place where they can lay all their gripes down about the moderation on IceInSpace.

Honestly it all sounds very petty.

Of course not everyone is going to like every bit of moderation that happens. I don't like every little thing that my boss does at work. I don't like every little thing that my parents did when I was a kid. I don't like every little thing that my kids do.

But it doesn't mean I go and complain about it in public like they're the worst people in the world. Of course people feel strongly about it the moderation affected them in some way, but for the 99% of the time, no-one ever notices the moderation and that's the way it should be.

Not everyone is going to agree with everything, and we learned long ago we can't please everyone. Sometimes we make mistakes too and we'd ask you to forgive us for those and move on, instead of bringing it up months or years later - just as we forgive you when we have to delete an inappropriate post, or correct swearing, or delete or remove posts when people start attacking each other.

If you have a genuine concern or would like to offer any suggestions, PM me directly. If all you want to do is complain and/or gripe, i'm sorry this isn't the place for it.