Light pollution - not happy

bones · #1 29-12-2008, 04:15 PM

I'm sure we all have a problem when it comes to light pollution. Living a km away from the Mingara club (for those who don't know, one of the biggest on the Central Coast), I thought that the I could put up with the flood lights on the adjoining fields being on till 10pm. But wait there's more...
Yeah well I'm finally on holidays. Done the trip with the fam before Christmas and now at home to veg out and relax and finally get some observing over the next two weeks, if the clouds ever clear. Last night was the clearest night in I don't know how long. Dragged the scope out in the backyard and what do you know. The Mingara club has two giant search lights (like the one's that remind you an air attack in war time is on) scanning the skies and sweeping from the south up as far as the sword in Orion - that's about 2/3s of the visible heavens. Phoned the club this morning. They said it's part of their summer promotion and that they'll be on every night until the 14th of January.

Welcome to 2009 - for me it's starting out as the International Year of Light Pollution.

astronut (John) · #2 29-12-2008, 04:29 PM

Ask them if they believe in saving the planets resources.
If the answer is YES (and with all the stuff that's being shoveled around about global warming) they will consider themselves compliant citizens, you should point out to them (nicely, but firmly) that their heavy use of power (burning coal) is contributing to the greenhouse effect!!
"Hoist them on their own petard"

Ric · #3 29-12-2008, 04:33 PM

That's a bummer, I hope those giant spotlights are turned off after 10pm as well.

You would think that the power cost of running those lights would be eating into the profits made from any promotion.

leon · #4 29-12-2008, 04:34 PM

Some people are just plain stupid, I feel for you Bones.

Leon

Starkler (Geoff) · #5 29-12-2008, 04:41 PM

Do they leave them running all night?

bones · #6 29-12-2008, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ric

That's a bummer, I hope those giant spotlights are turned off after 10pm as well.

Nope, they said they're on till 1am every night/morning till the 14 January.

Octane (Humayun) · #7 29-12-2008, 04:47 PM

They may have been the spotlights/searchlights that we could see from the Pony Club the other night!

Regards,
Humayun

renormalised (Carl) · #8 29-12-2008, 05:29 PM

Bones, is the pony club in a flight zone??. If so, you can get them to turn the lights off as they'll be a hazard to aircraft. Just complain to the local council or the aviation authority, if they are in a flight zone. Or embarrass them in the local paper, taking the env' lean to the letter. Why anyone, especially a pony club, would want to keep searchlights shining till 1am in the morning is beyond me. There's no need for it and it's utterly ridiculous. More to the point, why would they want to use them in the first place??!!.

Ian Robinson · #9 29-12-2008, 05:44 PM

Aeropelican fly quite low over that area and I wouldn't want to be on a flight if it's pilot was blinded by one of those search lights.Call the cops and tell them the lights are dangerous to aircraft that are flying Newcastle to Sydney at night and see what happens. Worth trying.

Get enough of the locals to complaign to the club manager and the lights might be turned off pretty quick.

AstralTraveller (David) · #10 29-12-2008, 09:41 PM

Twenty or so years ago I was observing from near Mt Keira, just east of Wollongong, on a night when the Stones were doing an outdoor gig in Sydney. Two search-light beams were visible waving about overhead, though they didn't affect observing. Still, if they were visible 60+km away I wouldn't like to be only 1 km from them. It must be a disaster.

I wonder how this 'promotion' is supposed to work? I've done enough camping to know what is attracted to lights at night. And moths and bugs don't bring much money with them.

......................

Pondering that question I'm now wondering what is says about the intellect of those who are attracted to a venue by bright lights?

bones · #11 29-12-2008, 10:01 PM

AstralTraveller, not too sure how it helps with their "promotion". Maybe it's their way of the "look at me" factor. The only other time I remember these kind of search lights being used was about 20 years ago when a new light club opened up at Ettalong Beach at the Memorial Club. We could see them from Terrigal. As for the nusiance at hand, tonight there's only one on beaming away. Not that it makes much difference as it's all cloudy tonight.

Ian Robinson · #12 29-12-2008, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bones

AstralTraveller, not too sure how it helps with their "promotion". Maybe it's their way of the "look at me" factor. The only other time I remember these kind of search lights being used was about 20 years ago when a new light club opened up at Ettalong Beach at the Memorial Club. We could see them from Terrigal. As for the nusiance at hand, tonight there's only one on beaming away. Not that it makes much difference as it's all cloudy tonight.

Hmmm.... maybe another irrate stargazer dealt with the one that is no more ....

It's cloudy tonight , I'm surprized the local UFOfruits aren't claiming they can see UFOs doing impossible things tonight ....

Ric · #13 30-12-2008, 10:20 PM

Geez, 1am I'm sure there must be some sort of law against that.

Loud music has to be off by 10pm, there must be something against bright lights.

Ian Robinson · #14 30-12-2008, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ric

Geez, 1am I'm sure there must be some sort of law against that.

Loud music has to be off by 10pm, there must be something against bright lights.

Not in NSW it seems

.... been down that path .... not good.

renormalised (Carl) · #15 30-12-2008, 11:35 PM

Nothing a 12 gauge can't fix, or a slingshot

ew (Eric) · #16 02-01-2009, 02:43 PM

Hi everyone I'm new here but would like to add my 2 cents worth on light pollution being a pet hate (as we all do) I moved to the southwest and when looking for house took a compass to find a good location for astronomy, found the right house, old and still doing it up but with 270 degree views...But I overlooked a street light that glared into the house ruining astronomy west and north. Bottom line a call to local shire most helpfully had most of it painted black so now Venus is brighter. I think a call to the shire could help. Also two local papers ran an article about it.

Happy New Year

bmitchell82 (Brendan) · #17 02-01-2009, 03:34 PM

I have been contemplating the same thing in perth, i have a great back yard, on a 1000sqm block, theres a nice patch out the back where i have earmarked for the ROR obs once funds allow, only problem is that theres 2 street lights white ( i think they are the mercury vapor breed) that shine directly onto the site.

My thoughts where as long as its not harming the light output to the street it should be fine to get it painted over even if it means that i have to supply the paint or hire the cherry picker to go up i don't care

long as the lights are killed.!

Rodstar (Rod) · #18 02-01-2009, 07:54 PM

Well I have a similar problem at the moment, but with my neighbour. We have had some good observing conditions in the past week or so, but 5 out of the last 6 times I have been set up in the backyard, my neighbour has left his second storey bathroom light on. I have told him many times that this completely destroys my observing, but he just doesn't get it.

On the 28th I waited 2.5 hours in the hope he would turn the light off when going to bed, but at midnight, I gave up, and packed up. Having a 20 inch telescope is great, but when the neighbour's lights are on, it might as well be a 50mm Tasco for the all the ghosting and shadows created.

I am a bit unsure how to proceed now. How many times can I explain, and ask politely? My plan for tomorrow is to visit them with a basket of fresh vegies from our vegie patch, give them the basket with best new years wishes, etc etc, and then mention it in conversation in as low key, but clear way as possible.

It really is the pits when you have conflict with your neighbour. It is very expensive to have to move....

bones · #19 02-01-2009, 08:05 PM

Thanks for the comments all. Now for the update I suppose. The lights are now two again. New years eve I sent an email to the Council asking a number of questions, including whether the club had a consent for the search lights, and whether they'd considered a number of issues if they had approval. I haven't heard anything back from the Council to date. However, I did receive a call from the the clubs marketing manager today about my complaint to the Council. He told me that they do have consent to operate the lights from the Council for the promotion, and that they do have permission also from the Civil Aviation Authority. So it looks like there's nothing else I can do about it.

. The marketing manager didn't really seem to understand what the issue of light pollution was all about, although he did apologise for any inconvenience it has been causing. Although the lights will continue to shine, on a positive note he told me that they will now be in use until the 11th January (full moon night) instead of the 14th, and that they will be hopefully turning them off at midnight instead of 1am. Not much of a consolation as I'm back at work on the 12th January and I'll probably have to now wait till around the next new moon for better observing at home.

Although this is the first time that they (the Mingara club) have used these lights, unfortunatley he also said they they'd be looking at using the search lights in holiday periods for future promotions. On NYE night I took the scope to my mums 15km away. I could see them lighting up a patch of cirrus clouds that drifted through early in the night. Octane said earlier in this thread that he believes that these were the lights he could see from the Pony Club observation night last Saturday night - that's about a 50km drive away from the Mingara Club!!!
Be warned, this could happen to any of us, any where...

Ian Robinson · #20 02-01-2009, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodstar

Well I have a similar problem at the moment, but with my neighbour. We have had some good observing conditions in the past week or so, but 5 out of the last 6 times I have been set up in the backyard, my neighbour has left his second storey bathroom light on. I have told him many times that this completely destroys my observing, but he just doesn't get it.

On the 28th I waited 2.5 hours in the hope he would turn the light off when going to bed, but at midnight, I gave up, and packed up. Having a 20 inch telescope is great, but when the neighbour's lights are on, it might as well be a 50mm Tasco for the all the ghosting and shadows created.

I am a bit unsure how to proceed now. How many times can I explain, and ask politely? My plan for tomorrow is to visit them with a basket of fresh vegies from our vegie patch, give them the basket with best new years wishes, etc etc, and then mention it in conversation in as low key, but clear way as possible.

It really is the pits when you have conflict with your neighbour. It is very expensive to have to move....

Too bad the globe is actually inside the house and two storys up.

If it were an outside globe you might have been able to sort it with a slug gun or a long fishing gaff (cane handled - metal handled is dangerous).

Are you on good terms with them ? if yes invite them over one dark night and give them a viewing session , if not , threaten them with legal action (chances are they wont know you can do not do anything , being too dopey to get it as you say).