laser pointers?

[bmitchell82 (Brendan)]

hey all,

just wondering if laser pointers have become useable to the amature astronomers again? after all the hype has died down. I take my family out sometimes when it isn't too cold to look at things and sometimes its kinda hard to explain to a 5 year old where to look or what he is looking at. any other ideas if the lasers arnt avalible.?

Brendan

[iceman (Mike)]

Hi Brendan.

You can still buy them from most astronomy shops and probably all over ebay and other sites on the internet.

Check this thread for more, however I don't know what the relevant laws are in W.A.

[erick (Eric)]

Contact Matthew Lovell in South Australia

PH: 61+ 8 8381 3188
FAX: 61+ 8 8381 3588
telescopes@adam.com.au
http://www.telescopes-astronomy.com.au

He advertises:-

"GREEN LASER POINTERS

We are licensed importers and retailers of Green, Red and Blue Lasers. All Lasers have a 3 month warranty. We offer a repair service for all Laser Pointers. We exchange your broken Laser for a new one if kept in good condition and purchased from us:

JLP Series Green Laser Pointer

JLP-1mW - $80AUD
JLP-5mW - $115AUD
JLP-10mW - $170AUD
JLP-20mW - $240AUD
JLP-30mW - $280AUD
JLP-50mW - $340AUD
JLP-100mW - $490AUD
JLP-350mW - $990AUD
JLP-400mW - $1190AUD

Astronomy 1mW Green Laser Pointer $100AUD

Various Laser Modules available"

5mW should be more than enough. If his 1mW one works OK (if your sky is dark enough), you might be able to stay below the power level that needs licences etc.

[marki]

Originally Posted by bmitchell82

hey all,

just wondering if laser pointers have become useable to the amature astronomers again? after all the hype has died down. I take my family out sometimes when it isn't too cold to look at things and sometimes its kinda hard to explain to a 5 year old where to look or what he is looking at. any other ideas if the lasers arnt avalible.?

Brendan

Brendan, you can get them from Karrynup shopping centre. There is a shop near Myers that sells them but you have to ask the guy as he does not have them on display. There are no laws in WA relating to lasers. They have been re-classified as a class 2 weapon so if you are caught pointing them at another person or aircraft you will be charged the same as if it were a gun (got this straight from WA police firearms). Reponsible use is ok and you do not need any permits etc.

Mark

[Blue Skies (Jacquie)]

Originally Posted by marki

There are no laws in WA relating to lasers. They have been re-classified as a class 2 weapon so if you are caught pointing them at another person or aircraft you will be charged the same as if it were a gun (got this straight from WA police firearms). Reponsible use is ok and you do not need any permits etc.

Mark

There definitely ARE laws regulating lasers in WA, they are looked after by the Radiological Council. Legally you can own a green laser up to 5mw in strength without getting into trouble. If you want to own and use one at a higher rating you need to pay for a licence, state where you will be using it and do a half day course on safe laser usage. Most of this would be aimed at other regulars of lasers, such as universities and medical equipment, but the law extends to green laser pointers in this case. I strongly recommend you contact the Radiological Council if you any further questions or need clarification on these laws. I'm involved with both ASWA and Perth Observatory as a volunteer and with both organisations we take great care to be on top of the law at all times, so I've had to keep up with developments.

Be safe - just go for a 5mw. There's no need for overkill.

[AstroJunk (Jonathan)]

Originally Posted by bmitchell82

hey all,

any other ideas if the lasers arnt avalible.?

Brendan

A powerfull torch or spotlight does it. Not nearly as cute as a thin green line, but that's what astronomers have been using for decades and they work (nearly) as well!

I was at a show in The Alice recently where both were used - the spotlight to show 'big' items such as constellations, and the laser to point out small details. It was very efffective.

[Kal (Andrew)]

Originally Posted by Blue Skies

There definitely ARE laws regulating lasers in WA, they are looked after by the Radiological Council. Legally you can own a green laser up to 5mw in strength without getting into trouble. If you want to own and use one at a higher rating you need to pay for a licence, state where you will be using it and do a half day course on safe laser usage. Most of this would be aimed at other regulars of lasers, such as universities and medical equipment, but the law extends to green laser pointers in this case. I strongly recommend you contact the Radiological Council if you any further questions or need clarification on these laws. I'm involved with both ASWA and Perth Observatory as a volunteer and with both organisations we take great care to be on top of the law at all times, so I've had to keep up with developments.

Be safe - just go for a 5mw. There's no need for overkill.

Excellent post. I found the link to the Radiological Council webpage regarding lasers here for all W.A. people with questions regarding lasers.

[OneOfOne (Trevor)]

Originally Posted by AstroJunk

A powerfull torch or spotlight does it. Not nearly as cute as a thin green line, but that's what astronomers have been using for decades and they work (nearly) as well!

I was at a show in The Alice recently where both were used - the spotlight to show 'big' items such as constellations, and the laser to point out small details. It was very efffective.

Hmm...don't know if the spotlight would be popular if you were doing it at a public viewing!

[Kal (Andrew)]

Originally Posted by OneOfOne

Hmm...don't know if the spotlight would be popular if you were doing it at a public viewing!

roflmao, I can just imagine someone switching it on at a starparty and hearing a sea of moans!

[marki]

Originally Posted by Blue Skies

There definitely ARE laws regulating lasers in WA, they are looked after by the Radiological Council. Legally you can own a green laser up to 5mw in strength without getting into trouble. If you want to own and use one at a higher rating you need to pay for a licence, state where you will be using it and do a half day course on safe laser usage. Most of this would be aimed at other regulars of lasers, such as universities and medical equipment, but the law extends to green laser pointers in this case. I strongly recommend you contact the Radiological Council if you any further questions or need clarification on these laws. I'm involved with both ASWA and Perth Observatory as a volunteer and with both organisations we take great care to be on top of the law at all times, so I've had to keep up with developments.

Be safe - just go for a 5mw. There's no need for overkill.

Thanks for that info. When I was ringing around to try and find out I always ended up with an all legal just don't point it at anyone type statement. I certainly would not have thought to ring the Radiological Council owing to the fact that I did not know they existed let alone had been given the power to regulate lasers. I could have bought the death star laser for all the firearms people cared and everyone was directing me to them as the regulator (customs included). I agree, 5mw is enough.

Mark

[bmitchell82 (Brendan)]

So the 5mw will give you that distinctive line so people can follow? i thought it was a 35 - 45 that became visable? meh <---- Noob

[marki]

I use a 5mw green laser when we run astronomy nights at school and the beam is easily seen in the dark.

[chris lewis]

Here over in New Zealand there are no regulations whatsoever. You can buy all power of lasers on our local ‘Trade Me’ site.
However it may change in the future as there have been a few incidences of lasers aimed at commercial pilots.

100mw green lasers are $NZ160
80 mw are $130
50mw 532 nm Class 111b are $75
50 are $69
30mw nm Class 111b are $45
10mw are $35

There are 150mw ones available but unsure of the price.
They are advertised for astronomical use.

The more powerful lasers state ‘it can burn through plastic’.
The only warning is that ‘they are not intended for Children and they can cause permanent eye damage’.

[Blue Skies (Jacquie)]

Originally Posted by marki

Thanks for that info. When I was ringing around to try and find out I always ended up with an all legal just don't point it at anyone type statement. I certainly would not have thought to ring the Radiological Council owing to the fact that I did not know they existed let alone had been given the power to regulate lasers. I could have bought the death star laser for all the firearms people cared and everyone was directing me to them as the regulator (customs included). I agree, 5mw is enough.

Mark

It has long been a gripe of mine that although these laws exist and have done so for some time, no one enforces them. If they were that important I would have thought that Customs would be stopping them in the post, but they aren't and never have. Once people started to realise it wasn't happening here in WA the floodgates opened and everyone started ordering them from outside the state, the only limit seemed to be that you couldn't buy one from inside WA because of the 1mw rule, and yet even that seems to have gone by the wayside at the moment. And...even the Radiological Council was hazy on them at one point, even though the ball's in their court! The whole thing is a schmozzle, a very frustrating schmozzle, IMO. I wouldn't really mind if they were banned completely as long is it was crystal clear what the lawful status was to everybody. [/rant]

[marki]

Originally Posted by Blue Skies

It has long been a gripe of mine that although these laws exist and have done so for some time, no one enforces them. If they were that important I would have thought that Customs would be stopping them in the post, but they aren't and never have. Once people started to realise it wasn't happening here in WA the floodgates opened and everyone started ordering them from outside the state, the only limit seemed to be that you couldn't buy one from inside WA because of the 1mw rule, and yet even that seems to have gone by the wayside at the moment. And...even the Radiological Council was hazy on them at one point, even though the ball's in their court! The whole thing is a schmozzle, a very frustrating schmozzle, IMO. I wouldn't really mind if they were banned completely as long is it was crystal clear what the lawful status was to everybody. [/rant]

I think you will find that as a federal department, customs will follow federal law rather than state law (they certainly are in this case with the new limit being 5mw). From the post below it seems that most of the rules are aimed at regulating industry and I would imagine it would be a mammoth task to try and control lasers coming in from the east via oz post and other couriers. However, as a science teacher I do not support a complete ban on hand held lasers as they are such a valuable teaching tool. It seems some of the Eastern State Govt's agree as they have included teachers in their lists of appropriate users. Prohibition is unlikely to work as lasers are not difficult to construct.

Mark

[Jeff]

I expect a large reason for the new legislation is to give police/courts powers to inflict significant penalties on idiots who try to use these devices near airports to harass pilots. I understand there have been a lot more incidents of this occurring in Australia recently than appear in the news.

I have found Customs to be very good, but the variation and duplication of legislation between the states is a bit baffling to me. Maybe common sense will prevail in the medium term for amateur astronomers to legally/responsibly acquire and use modest power laser pointers ... without having to pay registration fees ($154 every three years) to "carry" a dangerous weapon which for many of us is permanently attached to a telescope as a finder.


To me, it's a matter of finding "balance" in how these laws are applied, and settling on a nationally uniform approach once a good balance is found.

[marki]

Originally Posted by Jeff

To me, it's a matter of finding "balance" in how these laws are applied, and settling on a nationally uniform approach once a good balance is found.

Agree totally.

Mark

[bmitchell82 (Brendan)]

well all laws aside, if the 5mW laser does the correct job and allows people to see it then i don't care about any other class of laser ! ill go and get me one w00t! and yes they are great as a sight glass! especially on crappy telescopes!

[erick (Eric)]

One point worth noting is that one needs to be close to the source of the laser to see the beam. Like of the order of a few metres. The lower the power, the closer one needs to be. My experience is that anyone standing more than about 10-15m from me cannot see the beam of my 5mW green laser. So crowd people around you if you want them to see the beam. If you are going to have people some distance from you, better step up to 10-20mW.

[citivolus (Ric)]

My 20mW is only visible in air from up to about 20m away. That basically makes it visible from my neighbour's yard and no farther, and they'll just ask what I'm up to if they spot it. I'm not too concerned about drawing unwelcome attention while using it, provided I pay attention to the departures flight path to the west of me and arrivals to the east.

On another note, customs has been opening all of my possibly laser-pointer sized torch shipments lately for inspection. They really do seem to be paying attention on this one.