IIS Recognition for Pavel Bahtinov?

[Quark (Trevor)]

Hi all,
Any of you that have checked out the "Perfect focus each time" thread on the "ATM and DIY Projects forum would be aware of the truly stunning new design for a focusing mask by the Russian Pavel Bahtinov.

This new innovation rates right up there amongst the most ground breaking and pivotal advancements in amateur astronomy of our time. This was made freely available to all via the internet and will benefit thousands of amateurs around the world.

Hundreds of IIS members have benefited from this invention and ultimately science will be the richer for the work of Pavel Bahtinov.

I am posting this thread in the hope that other IIS members might support some form of official recognition from Mike, on behalf of IIS, the largest amateur astronomy forum in the Southern Hemisphere, in recognition of the contribution of Pavel Bahtinov to amateur astronomy.

I think it would be great if Mike could convey our congratulations and appreciation of this mans work from the amateurs of OZ.

I note from the original "Perfect focus each time thread" that IIS forum member ozstockman (Mike) can speak Russian and possibly may be able to help with such a message.

Regards
Trevor

[h0ughy (David)]

I do agree that his idea is a pearler, and i am sure that he could be aware of what is happening with his designs, though I don't like the fact some people may be gaining financially from his design.

[GeoffW1 (Geoff)]

Originally Posted by Quark

I am posting this thread in the hope that other IIS members might support some form of official recognition from Mike, on behalf of IIS, the largest amateur astronomy forum in the Southern Hemisphere, in recognition of the contribution of Pavel Bahtinov to amateur astronomy.

I think it would be great if Mike could convey our congratulations and appreciation of this mans work from the amateurs of OZ.

Regards
Trevor

I agree, I have made one mask, and planning a another for the Dob, and it worked a treat. I'd support this recognition from IIS. We need to think of a suitable item which can be engraved and posted. Nothing kitsch. Trouble is, all I can think of so far is kitsch.

Cheers

[kinetic (Steve)]

Originally Posted by Quark

I am posting this thread in the hope that other IIS members might support some form of official recognition from Mike, on behalf of IIS, the largest amateur astronomy forum in the Southern Hemisphere, in recognition of the contribution of Pavel Bahtinov to amateur astronomy.

I think it would be great if Mike could convey our congratulations and appreciation of this mans work from the amateurs of OZ.


Regards
Trevor

I agree Trevor, and I also agree with Houghy's sentiments about making
profit out of someone elses idea. No conscience!

Maybe one angle is something along the lines of the whole Steve Chambers long exposure mod disclaimer.

Basically, Steve's webcam mod revolutionised cheap ccd astronomy for
thousands and he shared his ideas freely on many forums.

Because he couldn't very well ask for money to modify someone's webcam
for them, (reverse engineering a phillips webcam), he however asked that
if anyone did feel compelled to donate something, it went to a charity
that Steve had nominated.

Now , with any SC mods, there seems to be a prevailing attitude amongst
amateurs to 'police' or 'dob in' someone who may start up a small home
business doing SC mods for profit.

So generally, the majority of amateurs who felt they had benefitted from
the initial gesture of the inventor to freely publish his/her discovery on
the internet, feel they owe a duty to do the right thing.

Maybe IIS could ask Mr Bahtinov how he feels about the whole concept
first?

regards,
Steve B.

[Babalyon 5]

I'm in! Works great, he should get a Nobel!

[GrahamL]

While I did read a bit of that thread on this " contraption "..I really cant
understand the kicking the seller using an idea placed in the public domain for the betterment of astronomy in general got and still gets such a public flogging for doing so ??..Particularly when he declares his wish to share cash with the original poster .. No doubt I've missed where the few who choose to benefit from this shareing here and make there own are
makeing there donations ??

[AlexN]

I have a lot of appreciation for the mans work... My masks are now among most used items... The ability to focus quickly and accurately leaves more time for imaging, which can only be a good thing..

[Dennis]

This really is an excellent idea, but my first guess is that we should ask Mike and the Ice In Space Management Team if this proposed vote of thanks fits in with their charter or vision of how the site operates and how it will be used.

My next guess is that Mike is probably flat out running his own life, not to mention his ongoing alter-life of managing Ice In Space. I don’t think that Mike has yet used, made, ordered or received a Bahtinov Mask, so perhaps hasn’t experienced it 1st hand himself?

If it is deemed that Ice In Space would like to “officially” thank and acknowledge Pavel for his fabulous contribution to easing the wretched chore of focusing, maybe someone who has used and benefitted from Pavel’s “Bahtinov Mask” would like to wordsmith a suitable statement of appreciation and perhaps publish it here for comment before Mike formally makes an approach to Pavel?

Apologies if this all sounds like I’m party pooping, but it is a great idea and we should make sure that the way ahead is clear, so that Pavel can be made aware of our gratitude under the guise of Ice In Space rather than as individuals.

Cheers

Dennis

EDIT: Another suggestion might be to trawl through the various posts about Pavel’s mask, to pick up all the comments made by the IIS users of the Bahtinov Mask and consolidate these into a message of thanks?

[Quark (Trevor)]

Originally Posted by Dennis

This really is an excellent idea, but my first guess is that we should ask Mike and the Ice In Space Management Team if this proposed vote of thanks fits in with their charter or vision of how the site operates and how it will be used.


Apologies if this all sounds like I’m party pooping, but it is a great idea and we should make sure that the way ahead is clear, so that Pavel can be made aware of our gratitude under the guise of Ice In Space rather than as individuals.

Cheers

Dennis

EDIT: Another suggestion might be to trawl through the various posts about Pavel’s mask, to pick up all the comments made by the IIS users of the Bahtinov Mask and consolidate these into a message of thanks?

Hi Dennis,

Of course the IIS management would need to decide what, if any action is appropriate.

Your final paragraph captures the essence of my suggestion, that something official from IIS would seem more pertinent than various individual messages.

When I found your original thread on this subject it took me a couple of days to work through it. Undoubtedly you have been the prime mover in presenting this innovation to IIS members and you have probably experimented more with it than most.

I really do think that some formal recognition would be extremely appropriate. You make a very valid point regarding whether or not Mike has had first hand experience with the mask. I read with much interest your thread but my first experience with my prototype really blew me away. This is something that people need to experience to appreciate.

It will be interesting to see how this pans out, to see if a formal response is deemed appropriate or not.

Regards
Trevor

[Dennis]

Hi Trevor

I think that your proposal is a wonderful suggestion, thank you for proposing it.

If the Ice In Space management team give it their blessing I would like to propose that as the originator, you would be the ideal person to draft a suitable “thank you Pavel” letter.

If we are to make a gift, such as a plaque, an inscribed (gold plated) Bahtinov Mask, etc., I would be delighted to contribute financially, as I’m sure would others.

I personally would like to see Ice In Space get behind this, but I am unsure if this “opens up” IIS to then “get behind” other products, magazines, suppliers, etc. if someone later on puts a case forward for a similar recognition. Could be a minefield for Mike?

Cheers

Dennis

[Quark (Trevor)]

Originally Posted by Dennis

Hi Trevor

I think that your proposal is a wonderful suggestion, thank you for proposing it.

If the Ice In Space management team give it their blessing I would like to propose that as the originator, you would be the ideal person to draft a suitable “thank you Pavel” letter.

If we are to make a gift, such as a plaque, an inscribed (gold plated) Bahtinov Mask, etc., I would be delighted to contribute financially, as I’m sure would others.

I personally would like to see Ice In Space get behind this, but I am unsure if this “opens up” IIS to then “get behind” other products, magazines, suppliers, etc. if someone later on puts a case forward for a similar recognition. Could be a minefield for Mike?

Cheers

Dennis

Hi Dennis,
I must say I had not thought about the unintended consequences and implications that may flow from any formal recognition from IIS. On reading the IIS charter I am not sure that such action, as I have suggested, fits within it's mandate.

I suppose that even with the best of intentions our actions can sometimes have unfortunate repercussions. Sadly this seems to be the way of the world now.

Last time I checked, your original thread on Pavel's mask had over 5000 views, obviously this design has created enormous interest on IIS.
However in no way do I wish to saddle IIS management with any ongoing or unwanted responsibilities.

We are fortunate to have this forum and the reality is that it is being run by only a handful of people with Mike and his team doing a great job.

Regards
Trevor

[iceman (Mike)]

Hi Trevor and Dennis

I applaud your efforts to get the much-deserved recognition to Pavel for sharing his wonderful Bahtinov mask. No doubt it's a great contribution to amateur astronomy communities around the world.

However his is just one example of a great number of applications (in many senses of the word) where an amateur astronomer has done exceptional work and shared his tools, techniques, and outputs with the greater astronomical community.

As has already been mentioned, the original ToUcam SC3 mod, as well as other fine examples right here in our community such as Al Sheehan and his ICCA, Bird with ppmcentre/ninox, etc.

IceInSpace, as an entity, can't officially "thank" each and every person when they share something with the community. The fact that so many people use these great masks all around the world, through discussions on groups like IceInSpace, Cloudy Nights, etc. should be proof enough to the creator that he's done a great service to astrophotography.

So while I appreciate and agree with your sentiments, as an entity, I can't see any reason to do anything out of the ordinary in this instance.

As with other great examples of amateurs work, I'd be more than happy to have articles written that describe how to create/make/use Bahtinov masks (that can be hosted on IceInSpace) so that others can benefit more easily than trawling through the thread with 200+ replies

Cheers

[Dennis]

Originally Posted by Quark

Hi Dennis,
I must say I had not thought about the unintended consequences and implications that may flow from any formal recognition from IIS. On reading the IIS charter I am not sure that such action, as I have suggested, fits within it's mandate.

I suppose that even with the best of intentions our actions can sometimes have unfortunate repercussions. Sadly this seems to be the way of the world now.

Last time I checked, your original thread on Pavel's mask had over 5000 views, obviously this design has created enormous interest on IIS.
However in no way do I wish to saddle IIS management with any ongoing or unwanted responsibilities.

We are fortunate to have this forum and the reality is that it is being run by only a handful of people with Mike and his team doing a great job.

Regards
Trevor

Hi Trevor

Yes, it seems that the age of innocence and sensibleness appears to have passed some time ago.

At some point in time, I’m not quite certain when, it appears that heartfelt, simple, genuine and harmless acts of kindness or recognition became open to being misconstrued, or used as precedence for others with a different agenda, to come back and bite innocent parties on the bottom when they least expect it.

I’m sure Pavel will become aware, through other means, of how much the global amateur astronomy community appreciates the simplicity and functional beauty of the Bahtinov Mask.

Cheers

Dennis

[Dennis]

Originally Posted by iceman

Hi Trevor and Dennis

I applaud your efforts to get the much-deserved recognition to Pavel for sharing his wonderful Bahtinov mask. No doubt it's a great contribution to amateur astronomy communities around the world.

However his is just one example of a great number of applications (in many senses of the word) where an amateur astronomer has done exceptional work and shared his tools, techniques, and outputs with the greater astronomical community.

As has already been mentioned, the original ToUcam SC3 mod, as well as other fine examples right here in our community such as Al Sheehan and his ICCA, Bird with ppmcentre/ninox, etc.

IceInSpace, as an entity, can't officially "thank" each and every person when they share something with the community. The fact that so many people use these great masks all around the world, through discussions on groups like IceInSpace, Cloudy Nights, etc. should be proof enough to the creator that he's done a great service to astrophotography.

So while I appreciate and agree with your sentiments, as an entity, I can't see any reason to do anything out of the ordinary in this instance.

As with other great examples of amateurs work, I'd be more than happy to have articles written that describe how to create/make/use Bahtinov masks (that can be hosted on IceInSpace) so that others can benefit more easily than trawling through the thread with 200+ replies

Cheers

Thanks Mike – I thought as much and I appreciate your time and effort in penning your reply so thoughtfully.

Cheers

Dennis