someone slap some sense into me!

[monoxide]

i know im hopeless........

i was almost ready to pull the trigger on an 8" LX200-ACF when i thought 'but id really love a nice refractor'

sorry if im going around in circles here but as i mentioned before this will be my last major astro purchase for quite a while and id like to get it right.

after carefully re-thinking my goals i've figured that i have the 12" with AN which is my DSO scope, i have the 6" f/5 newt and ED80 which are both fairly short focal length widefield scopes.
so id like something in-between that would excel at photography AND give me some nice views of the planets.

i've been looking at the EON120, it seems to be getting good reviews and the finish on it looks very nice. plus to me the 900mm focal length sounds pretty nice aswell.

so what do you guys think? any suggestions?
i guess i could extend the budget to 3k at the absolute max if you have any alternatives.

[gregbradley]

I see you have a QHY8 -good move.

A nice refractor with shorter focal length is always the better choice by far for imaging. Long focal length compound scopes require high end mounts to handle them otherwise you get eggs for stars and rotten images. hehe

The EON120 looks like its from the Taiwanese Manufacturer who makes William Optics scopes, Astrotech scopes. Very nice and a nice focuser/microfocuser. I use an Astrotech 66Ed scope for autoguiding and it is extremely well made and very affordable.

900mm is quite a good focal length for many objects. It is still semi widefield. You can download CCD calculator by Ron Wodaski for free and you can set it for various scope/camera combos and see exactly what size image it will produce. Very handy.
Google CCD calculator.

For 3Gs you'd be able to get a Stellarvue 90mm fluorite triplet which would be my choice. Now you have an extremely high end scope that is rare rare rare and could disappear at any time. A fluorite (real CaF2 fluorite not pretend marketing hype FPL53 "fluorite"). Only Tak FCT150 and FCT series and TEC have fluorite triplets. Noone else except this Stellarvue 90mm makes one. To get it in perspective - an FCT150 is AUD$13,000 2nd hand and 10 years + old, a TEC 180mm fluorite triplet is AUD$21,000. You get the idea?

Sell the ED80 and get a Tak 1.6X extender Q to increase focal length if you want to push it longer. I could be wrong but I don't think a 120mm refractor is going to beat your 12 inch dob for views of the planets. It will give a small view that could be barlowed but the image will start to break down. Aperure rules there. 6 inch APO or above is where planets start to look nice and even then a large SCT is hard to beat.

Greg.

[renormalised (Carl)]

Orion have released a new, 6.1MP version, of their StarShoot CCD camera, for $1700. From what I've heard in reviews it has a similar performance to the QHY8.

[monoxide]

thanks Greg,

i know where your coming from with the SV90mm and ive taken a good long hard look at it but in the end ive just thought well the views through a short tube refractor dont really excite me no matter how sharp the optics are and 3k is a fair bit of cash (to me) for a scope that your only going to stick a camera in, even if it will produce superb images.

i guess what im after is a contradiction in itself being that id like some nice planetary views through the same scope id like to image through without spending big $$

where are all the 6" ED's

i guess the EON120 is still in front for me, even though it may not be classed as a premium scope it certainly seems a winner on the price vs performance front. some of the reviewers claimed to hit 300x+ before the image quality degraded and i wouldnt be pushing it that hard unless the seeing was superb which is almost never here



@renormalised, after first getting the QHY8 in my hands and having a good look over it the first thing that comes to mind is how solid it is.
not that im trying to defend the QHY but i dont get the same feeling from seeing the Orion version and i spot a problem almost straight away with the tiny cooling fan, anyone that has been into computer hardware will tell you that those small (40mm chipset) fans just wont last at all and when that goes you will have a passively cooled peltier (also when these fans die, its usually the bearings in them since they are farily high rpm, that will give you a lot of noise and vibration when the bearings grind around) as your probably aware a peltier could be best described as a heat pump, without sufficient cooling the peltier will do next to nothing especially when compared with a 2 stage peltier setup with a ~120mm fan on a huge heatsink or it could even have the opposite effect and heat the camera up since the heat is no longer being actively removed. i cant comment on the rest of the build quality of the orion since i havent seen one in the flesh but i can tell you that the QHY8 is built like a tank and no doubt will last for many many years.

[renormalised (Carl)]

That's the only worry I have with the Orion...the fan. When first saw it, I thought it's a bit small, and yeah, I know about their longevity and possible problems. I've been around computer hardware for quite some time

Might have to see if you can retrofit a decent fan to the housing.

Or pay the extra $800 and get a QHY8.

[Chippy (Nick)]

I've been reading plenty of reviews and posts on the EON120 and they all seem very happy with the views. There are quality control issues with the focusers, but that can usually be sorted. As I've read in several posts, I don't think you could go wrong with one. The prices on these will start dropping I believe. In the US there are places selling them for US$1799 apparently, not that you will get a price like that here.

[monoxide]

Might have to see if you can retrofit a decent fan to the housing.

Or pay the extra $800 and get a QHY8.

i guess you know exactly what i think...
if you wait a while the prices will be dropping soon anyway

I've been reading plenty of reviews and posts on the EON120 and they all seem very happy with the views. There are quality control issues with the focusers, but that can usually be sorted. As I've read in several posts, I don't think you could go wrong with one. The prices on these will start dropping I believe. In the US there are places selling them for US$1799 apparently, not that you will get a price like that here.

i read this too but the review i read said there was nothing mechanically wrong with it but a grub screw too tight/loose or something. you'd still think the quality control of their 'flagship' refractors would pick up something as simple as turning the focuser knob

[AlexN]

Originally Posted by Chippy

I've been reading plenty of reviews and posts on the EON120 and they all seem very happy with the views. There are quality control issues with the focusers, but that can usually be sorted. As I've read in several posts, I don't think you could go wrong with one. The prices on these will start dropping I believe. In the US there are places selling them for US$1799 apparently, not that you will get a price like that here.

Im sure the EON's are great scopes, but the Stellarview 90mm fluorite triplet is a MUCH better option for imaging, and if its in the price range, Do it! aperture isnt the ruler of DSO imaging at these focal lengths...

As has been mentioned, the 90mm fluorite for DSO imaging, sell the ed80, 12" newt for planetary views, and hey, if you've got a few more $$ to throw around, wacking that 12" on an EQ6pro would make it the ultimate planetary viewer!

[Gama]

I would get the 8" ACF, for starters, its optics are razor sharp, no colour or other noticable distortions.
Next, get a reducer, and get some wide field going.
One day you gona want to image galaxies, and then you will ready.
Size baby, SIZE..

Theo

[monoxide]

i think ive been turned to the darkside, the little voice in the back of my head is telling me i *really* should go with the SV90T.

if it was purely for imaging that would be my choice for sure. but this is where i keep getting stuck...
the 12" is no doubt the best option of the lot for dso and planetary work but for planetary its just painful, literally.
i'm no expert visual observer though so it would be a great scope (90mm) to hone my skills on, plus i guess it would be a buzz to see a few faint fuzzies through it

id love the ACF but i know im under-mounted for it and trying to image at a 2m focal length with a mount nearly at its maximum visual load can only lead to frustration, the C8 is a lot lighter and my mount would handle it but without a way of locking the primary i would probably give up in frustration.

from what i've been reading if i was to take an image though the 8" SCT / EON120 / SV90T the 90mm fluorite would win hands down, but i guess all that comes down to something coming off an assembly line and being looked over compared to something being assembled then looked through.

i also found this: http://www.astro-foren.de/showthread.php?p=34399
not that i fully understand it but...

i guess my main concern would be how long i would have to wait for my scope if i was to order the SV90T, not that it wouldn't be worth waiting for but you would hope it wasnt overly long, i may have to send Peter Reid an email and see what he can tell me.

[renormalised (Carl)]

Granted, the SV90T will have a crisper looking image than the ACF on planetary details, but that's a consequence of the type of optics being used. However, if you want resolution and light gathering capacity also, you won't go past the ACF....it wins hands down. Especially if you want those nice looking nebula and galaxy shots, your 8" will out perform the refractors any day. Small refractors are great for wide field shots and planetary imaging, but try and get a close up of some faint PN or dim galaxy and see what happens. That's why you see the big guns taking piccies through different setups...they have their wide field and ultra crisp small refractors and a big lightbucket.

Just like a racing car driver...they don't use their 4-6 cylinder putt-putts to drive around Bathurst, they use their mongrel-sized V8's. The putt-putts are for town.

[TrevorW]

The title asked for it so here's my two bobs worth.

"Silly boy you don't need another scope, how many scopes do you need, wheres all the money going, etc etc etc". Go and sit in the corner you naughty boy.

Honestly look at Stellarvue scopes

[monoxide]

it just gets worse, i've found a brand new Tak FS-102 for a decent price lol

BUT i think this will be the one.
Tak's have a really good rep and its the close to a perfect match with my camera at 1.97 arcsec/pix, also i dont think ill hear any experienced imagers say that an 8" SCT would be a better choice than the Tak (shh Fred)
also it should be more than capable of throwing up a planetary image worth a look at the eyepiece.

the 8" sct at f10 would give me 0.8 arcsec/pix or at f6.3 1.28 arcsec/pix which is probably overdoing it a bit for down here.
its a given that the 8" would beat a smaller refractor by brute aperture but when you put it that way and realise id need atleast something like a G11 to take GOOD quality images, i could then put my 12" on top and with the mpcc that would smack the 8" around.

im not that bad yet am i Trevor lol..

[renormalised (Carl)]

Well, there you go. Mod the dob for fitting to a GEM mount and grab yourself the EQ6

Mind you, that Tak would be great as well.

[monoxide]

though a larger aperture doesnt really mean that the quality images i get will be better, plus theres just something about those images taken through a nice refractor that a newt just doesnt have

i think im just gonna bite the bullet and go for the Tak before they disappear

[Omaroo (Chris Malikoff)]

Originally Posted by monoxide

though a larger aperture doesnt really mean that the quality images i get will be better, plus theres just something about those images taken through a nice refractor that a newt just doesnt have

i think im just gonna bite the bullet and go for the Tak before they disappear

Good move I reckon - just done that myself. My C8 is being replaced by an FS102.

[monoxide]

now i've gone and done it.....
Tak FS-102NSV ordered

i'm really looking forward to it too. sounds like a fantastic scope.
it will come with the Tak 7x50 finder, clamshell, 1.25" diagonal and 2" extension tube which im happy with as i was expecting the OTA only.
i guess i'll be needing the flattener too at some stage

that makes me all the bit more confident in my choice too Chris, thanks

[renormalised (Carl)]

Now, what you need to go with your new Tak (good purchase BTW) is a STL11K CCD camera and some Astrodon filters