GreenLaser,s reply from Firearms Division

[Kevnool (Kev)]

Hi all i fired of an email to the police over the issuing and how much for the permit but this was the reply

Good morning Kevin,

The New South Wales Government has announced it will restrict the possession and use of high powered hand held, battery operated laser pointers by way of amendment to the Weapons Prohibition Regulation 1999. This amendment is yet to take place; however, laser pointers with a classification of Class 3 and above, as defined by the Australian Standard, will be classed as a prohibited weapon in accordance with Schedule 1 of the Weapons Prohibition Act 1998. This means that persons who wish to obtain or continue to possess such items may be required to apply for a prohibited weapons permit. Such persons will be subject to criminal and probity checks. Certain groups will be subject to exemptions and there will be no application costs involved for persons seeking to obtain a permit.
An offence for possession of any hand held, battery operated laser pointer in a public place without a reasonable excuse, such as business or employment, will also be introduced. It is not intended that persons who genuinely use laser pointers as part of their occupation or for recognised recreational activities will be unfairly targeted or unduly restricted. The Government is aware that some people use laser pointers for occupational or legitimate recreational purposes and accordingly, the public will be notified in advance of the new laws taking effect.

This information is provided as a guide only and does not constitute legal advice.

[sheeny (Al)]

Originally Posted by Kevnool

Hi all i fired of an email to the police over the issuing and how much for the permit but this was the reply

Good morning Kevin,

The New South Wales Government has announced it will restrict the possession and use of high powered hand held, battery operated laser pointers by way of amendment to the Weapons Prohibition Regulation 1999. This amendment is yet to take place; however, laser pointers with a classification of Class 3 and above, as defined by the Australian Standard, will be classed as a prohibited weapon in accordance with Schedule 1 of the Weapons Prohibition Act 1998. This means that persons who wish to obtain or continue to possess such items may be required to apply for a prohibited weapons permit. Such persons will be subject to criminal and probity checks. Certain groups will be subject to exemptions and there will be no application costs involved for persons seeking to obtain a permit.
An offence for possession of any hand held, battery operated laser pointer in a public place without a reasonable excuse, such as business or employment, will also be introduced. It is not intended that persons who genuinely use laser pointers as part of their occupation or for recognised recreational activities will be unfairly targeted or unduly restricted. The Government is aware that some people use laser pointers for occupational or legitimate recreational purposes and accordingly, the public will be notified in advance of the new laws taking effect.

This information is provided as a guide only and does not constitute legal advice.

Thanks for posting, Kevin.

Sounds like a reasonable response without all the hype ...especially the "subject to exemptions and there will be no application costs" assuming amateur astronomers qualify for the exemption! That's the sort of fee I'd happily comply with...

Al.

[h0ughy (David)]

thats only to read the stuff Al, after all your only seeking to obtain a licence, not actually get one, then you have to pay for the licence

I hope that is true?? so if a bunch of astro nuts get together and have a laser and can explain what we are doing then we might not get into trouble??

[KG8]

I remember when all the farmers kept semi-auto 22's around for rabbits and foxes. Then the port Arther operation came along and the Federal Government instigated the restructuring of gun control. Howard toured the country in a bulletproof vest, reassuring farmers that a special class of permit "Category D" would be created to allow farmers the right to keep their semi-auto ferral animal guns.

Category D was created, but every application for a licence under it was refused.

[Starkler (Geoff)]

Originally Posted by h0ughy

thats only to read the stuff Al, after all your only seeking to obtain a licence, not actually get one, then you have to pay for the licence

It seems that NSW has done a Victoria on green lasers and gone down the same path.

Ask Trevor (oneofone) about this one. I believe he had to pay something like $150 for a permit

[Hagar (Doug)]

With some of the comments posted here regarding the new laws, (They can take it over my dead body) I would expect that some should certainly worried as to wheather they are judged mentally compitent enough to hold a licence.
Lots of hype, threats and ongoing rubbish. It is a shame our law enforcement agencies have to put up with this type of loud mouthed houliganism over something this petty. All it took was a reasonable request for information to clarify the whole saga.

Vic is different but as it stands you want it enough you will be prepared to pay for it.

As for the gun laws, I can see no need for automatic weapons anywhere, anytime but I also believe professional vermin hunters who hunt pigs and goats etc. in NSW can and do get permits for Automatic High Powered rifles. They must first show a need for such a weapon.

[tornado33]

The sad thing with all this is someday someone will "misuse" a telescope, eg, by spying into peoples houses through windows, and the next thing is you will need to get a permit to use a telescope.

Like I once said, in a US National Park a group of observers were orded by a ranger to pack up and leave becuse they had no permit to observe there.

I can see another issue with the permit system, some lasers Ive seen on Ebay and the like have adjustable power output, some by a small pot you have to dissasemble the laser to get at. Thus a class 2 laser can become a prohibited class 3 and vice versa. They can go by the stickers that are normally found on laser pointers, but the sticker on this old red 0.8milliwatt pointer I own is worn off, so theyed have to send it to a lab for testing.

I wonder if we will see Police spot checking known astronomy observing sites for laser use, will they be issued with portable laser power meters?

Also, in Vic I believe higher powered laser pointers are only legal for astronomy use if attached to a telescope, they cannot be hand held, which is silly as thats often why they are used, to point out objects in the sky to people.

What also doesnt help is the Premier of NSW saying "they are banned" Does he mean right now, how can that be if no legslation is draughted and put through parliament. The whole things a schmozzle if you ask me, but coming from the most incompetant State government in Australias history, Im not surprised.

[OneOfOne (Trevor)]

My understanding of lasers being "attached" to telescopes is that they must in some way be "permanently" attached to the scope and not removable. In this case I believe you don't need a permit? I guess they figure you aren't going to hold the scope in your hands and start waving it around. If you are holding the laser in your hand, or are able to remove it from the scope, then you need a permit. I have my 30mW attached to the scope with a Lumicon bracket, which is removeable, but the only time I have taken it off was when the 5mW had gone dead due to the cold. Of course the 30mW was even colder and you could barely see the beam on the palm of your hand

The ASV enquired about getting a "group" license (which is implied in the response from the police) but it was refused, so I wouldn't hold my breath about getting some sort of group consideration in NSW (probably in the legislation to give the a "heart"...it is just not beating).

So my lasers are legal, I have done everything according to the law (IFAIK), I am paid up! So I just wish this whole issue would just go away so all of us who have no intention of misuse could just get on with our observing and public viewings. If they catch someone, I hope they chuck them in jail for a very long time....and throw away the key....maybe even shoot them at dawn after they have been hung, drawn and quartered....especially if they are a registered astronomical user (this would be the equivalent of treason).

[JohnG (John)]

Originally Posted by tornado33

I wonder if we will see Police spot checking known astronomy observing sites for laser use, will they be issued with portable laser power meters?

.

Oh, so you know, there already is an offence for peeping into peoples bedrooms.


So tell me, what does this mean then:

"An offence for possession of any hand held, battery operated laser pointer in a public place without a reasonable excuse, such as business or employment, will also be introduced".

Some of you are obviously sworn Police Officers (yeah right). Like everybody, read things into what is not written. With all the crap and garbage that has been written (Crime scenes, Polair landing in your yard, SWOS and SPG crashing through your doors) I would suggest that you all get a bit of a thing called common sense and, IF, and I mean IF you are spoken too, leave your ego behind and just remember, the Police Officer you are speaking to might just have come from a brawl, fatal accident, domestic or something similar, and, I can asure you, will not tolerate an aggresive attitude. It will make the difference between discretion being used and you being issued with a CAN and explaining things before a Magistrate, at your cost.

The ball is in your court.

Cheers

JohnG

[ngcles]

Hi Kevin John G & All,

Kevin posted as part of a response from the firearms registry:

"This means that persons who wish to obtain or continue to possess such items may be required to apply for a prohibited weapons permit. Such persons will be subject to criminal and probity checks. Certain groups will be subject to exemptions and there will be no application costs involved for persons seeking to obtain a permit.

An offence for possession of any hand held, battery operated laser pointer in a public place without a reasonable excuse, such as business or employment, will also be introduced. It is not intended that persons who genuinely use laser pointers as part of their occupation or for recognised recreational activities will be unfairly targeted or unduly restricted. The Government is aware that some people use laser pointers for occupational or legitimate recreational purposes and accordingly, the public will be notified in advance of the new laws taking effect."

And Kevin wrote:

"Sounds like a reasonable response without all the hype..."

Yes, I'd agree at this stage that this is quite positive news and if this is followed through (hope, hope) then it will be a quite good outcome in the circumstances. The only thing that concerns me from a quite technical (legal) point of view is the somewhat cumbersome requirements for storage of the item. In another thread I posted the requirements for storage (as they _currently stand_) which are in Regulation 12 and I reproduce:

12 General conditions of permit

In accordance with section 14 (3) of the Act, a permit is subject to the following conditions:
(a) the permit holder must comply with any special requirements that are notified to the permit holder in writing by the Commissioner and that relate to the security, storage and safe keeping of the prohibited weapons to which the permit relates,
(b) any conveying of a prohibited weapon to which the permit relates must be in accordance with the following safety requirements:
(i) the permit holder must take all reasonable precautions to ensure that the prohibited weapon is not lost or stolen while it is being conveyed,
(ii) anything designed to be fired or otherwise propelled from a prohibited weapon (for example, an arrow or dart) must be kept separate from the prohibited weapon while it is being conveyed,
(iii) if the conveying is by person, or by public transport, the prohibited weapon must be contained in an unobtrusive locked container,
(iv) if the conveying is by vehicle other than public transport, the prohibited weapon must be stored in a locked compartment within the vehicle, or in a locked container within or properly secured to the vehicle, and must not be able to be seen while it is being transported,
(c) any prohibited weapon to which the permit relates that is referred to in clause 2 (1) of Schedule 1 to the Act must be certified, by the holder of a theatrical weapons armourer permit, as having been deactivated (unless the Commissioner otherwise authorises the permit holder in writing).

The one of concern I have highlighted and it could potentially be a real pain in the you know what (assuming you don't have a lockable glove-box) to comply with the _letter of the regulation_ assuming it is not altered and/or is enforced.

Overall though, I think (tentatively) it is very good news.

John G wrote:

"With all the crap and garbage that has been written (Crime scenes, Polair landing in your yard, SWOS and SPG crashing through your doors) I would suggest that you all get a bit of a thing called common sense and, IF, and I mean IF you are spoken too, leave your ego behind and just remember, the Police Officer you are speaking to might just have come from a brawl, fatal accident, domestic or something similar, and, I can asure you, will not tolerate an aggresive attitude. It will make the difference between discretion being used and you being issued with a CAN and explaining things before a Magistrate, at your cost."

Spot on John!!:thumbsup :

95% of operational police apply what is called the "attitude test" to nearly all "minor" stuff. In the event of being hypothetically spoken to by police to over possession/use of a laser in the future: speak nicely, don't be agro, be respectful (not obsequious) and I assure you in at least 95% of cases it will get you a loooong way. In the other 5% of cases, it won't hurt so why not do it anyway?


Give them a look at Saturn while you're (if you can) at it and you might even win a convert to astronomy!

Best,

Les D

[OneOfOne (Trevor)]

I was reading my permit last night (so Victoria permit conditions) to check my expiry date, I'm paid up to October this year, I wonder if I will get a renewal notice or do I have to contact them. On the second page there is a list of storage conditions for restricted weapons, fortunately each paragraph relates to specific types of weapon (guns, body armour, swords, cross bow etc) and does not at any time mention specific instructions for the storage of my pointer...whew! I will have another read tonight to see if it says anything about transportation conditions, I don't see myself carrying a C11 or a CGE anywhere on public transport! Normally the laser is in the boot of the car with the other stuff. At public viewings it is stored in my pocket.