synscan noob help

Starkler (Geoff) · #1 16-03-2008, 03:11 PM

I had my shiny new heq5pro out under the stars the other night trying to come to grips with the hand controller and the idiosyncrasies of this mount. It has version 3.12 firmware.

After a couple of tries I got an acceptable two star alignment but there is some weirdness in the operation of the goto function.

1) I asked the mount to goto the gem cluster, so the mount starts slewing to the left (viewing from behind) and then the dec axis attempted to grind my refractor diagonal into the southern tripod leg

2) I later manually slewed to saturn, then I thought I might invoke 'goto Saturn' to see how far the goto would be off reality. Well the mount did find saturn but only after doing a meridian flip and pointing from the other side.

Is there something in the setup which can make the mount choose the more sane of two pointing solutions to a target?
Is it related to choice of alignment stars, their order, or having a park position set?

Starkler (Geoff) · #2 16-03-2008, 08:15 PM

Anyone?

Merlin66 (Ken) · #3 16-03-2008, 08:29 PM

I've got the V2 firmware on mine, but I'm not sure that has anything to do with your perceived problems.
If the scope has been set up for correct location, and time; roughly aligned to the SCP and a 2 star "alignment" confirmed, the rest is automatic!
Other than trying to drive the scope into the tripod have you experienced any other issues??

h0ughy (David) · #4 16-03-2008, 08:43 PM

you need to set up the location for a start, date time and location, two star alignment (you will have to slew manual after it does its dance). then park and save at end of session. its native thoughts are northern hemisphere

Starkler (Geoff) · #5 16-03-2008, 09:29 PM

I have done all that houghy barring the park bit, and just wondering if what i experienced is normal behaviour for this mount.
The mount was moving in the direction of the gem cluster, but to get it that way the counterweights are up and over, and the ota hitting the tripod leg.

I could slew to it manually with a more equipment friendly attitude on the other side of the meridian. My question is, is the mount smart enough to be configurable to choose the more sane of two posible ways to goto such an object or will I be forever restricted in what i can point at with goto

h0ughy (David) · #6 16-03-2008, 09:41 PM

no after you set it right it will behave

Terry B · #7 16-03-2008, 09:42 PM

I have an EQ6 with the synscan and now an EQMod also.
There are a few problems with the synscan but I have found it extremely accurate and able to put an object in the eyepiece every time.
Important points:

A reasonably accurate polar alignment helps. I use the polar scopewithout the main scope on the mount. I then connect the scope and then align the scope with the axis of the mount by looking through the eyepiece whilst gently rotating the telescope, let the clutch off and move the scope til the stars just rotate around in the eyepiece the scope. This aligns the axis of the scope with the mount. I then use the finder scope or the main scope to find the little L shaped asterism of the southern pole and move the scope to centre this. The end result is polar alignment within a few arcmins. The entire process takes less than 5 mins.

Orient the scope vertically and balance it as well as you can.

Turn on the synscan and set the time, timezone and coordinates as accurately as possible. One problem I had was that the hand controller didn't like accepting the time as +10 hours and would change it back to -10. It is worth skipping the alignment function the first time, go into the settings menu and check it has remembered the correct timezone and position. If all is correct, turn it off and start again. It will come up with the correct info the next time. It took about 10 goes before I could get it to remember +10.

After setting the time accurately select a 3 star alignment.
You don't have to accept the first choice it gives. It will choose 2 stars to one side of the meridian and a 3rd on the other side of the meridian. Try to make the first 2 widely spaced and on different hour angles. The 3rd doesn't matter as much as it will be on the other side of the sky anyway. I found that the first star is usually in the field of my finder. This is mostly determined by the accuracy of the polar alignment and how close to vertical you started the scope. After centering and syncing on the first star the next 2 should be on the filed of a low power eyepiece. The 3rd one might be off a bit if your scope has significant cone error (not very parallel with the polar axis of the mount)

Hopefully it has accepted your choice of alignment stars and comes up with "alignment successful"
After this I found the goto to be very accurate except for aiming at planets. It seems to not work out their positions as well as stars or deep sky stuff.

If you connect a planetarium software to the mount and use it to slew to objects then the accuracy doesn't seem to be as good. I think this is because of differences in the coordinates used by the synscan and the planetarium software. I think that the synscan uses epoch2000 coordinates and doesn't update them for the current date where the planetarium software does. This gives a little bit of discrepancy with the gotos to named objects.

Best of luck with the new mount.

Terry B · #8 16-03-2008, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starkler

I have done all that houghy barring the park bit, and just wondering if what i experienced is normal behaviour for this mount.
The mount was moving in the direction of the gem cluster, but to get it that way the counterweights are up and over, and the ota hitting the tripod leg.

I could slew to it manually with a more equipment friendly attitude on the other side of the meridian. My question is, is the mount smart enough to be configurable to choose the more sane of two posible ways to goto such an object or will I be forever restricted in what i can point at with goto

Not sure why it would hit. Mine will only allow the mount to go a very little bit past horizontal before doing a flip.
Which way do you have the tripod oriented? I swapped mine around so there is 1 leg aiming south only. The scope never ties to hit the leg (but I do have a short VC200L and not a very long refractor)

Kokatha man · #9 16-03-2008, 11:41 PM

I've got an F8 150mm achro on my HEQ5, ie a long tom: I'm quite adept at accurate polar alignment and allways do a 3 star alignment, and whilst the 1st and 2nd stars need some correcting after it auto-slews to them, the third is much better for it to find - GoTo is then pretty dang accurate with a 26mm ep (48x) - but this baby allways follows its peculiar pathways to some of the objects sought, sometimes trying the "loop de loop," depending on their positions relative to where it last was.

And this has meant occasionally "skimming" the "southern leg" of the tripod with the focusser racked out, though I guess I could quickly pull that in cos it's motorized - but the first couple of times I stopped it, thinking I was about to have a major bingle; but now when it occasionally takes that route, if I hold my nerve it just skims past the leg without contact - though in the dark it takes some nerve to "hold steady" at that proximity! Only does it on that "southern leg."

As for someone's mention of moving the position of the "southern leg," I don't think you have any options there - this is the leg that has the azimuth adjustment spigot centred above it and by nature requires it (the spigot) and the leg to be as approximate to south as is possible, given the angular adjustment allowable with the az adjust screws. All I can say is hold your nerves, and "steady as she goes!"

Zuts · #10 16-03-2008, 11:58 PM

Hi,

My EQ6 does the same thing. The other night I had a small accident with my SBIG

, but no damage done.

Now I watch it and if it goes too close I just hit ESC and then manouver past it then hit goto again.

Paul

Starkler (Geoff) · #11 17-03-2008, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuts

Now I watch it and if it goes too close I just hit ESC and then manouver past it then hit goto again.

Paul

Thanks guys for the replies and advice. Yes Paul thats something to remember.
I guess I shouldnt have panicked being my first time out with this mount riding the learning curve while trying to learn how to drift align at the same time.

Hopefully after a few goes I'll get the hang of it all. Thanks again

Terry B · #12 17-03-2008, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kokatha man

As for someone's mention of moving the position of the "southern leg," I don't think you have any options there - this is the leg that has the azimuth adjustment spigot centred above it and by nature requires it (the spigot) and the leg to be as approximate to south as is possible, given the angular adjustment allowable with the az adjust screws. All I can say is hold your nerves, and "steady as she goes!"

I can't speak for the Heq5 but the EQ6 spigot is removeable and can be placed on either side of the tripod giving you the choice of 1 or 2 legs aiming south.

Kokatha man · #13 17-03-2008, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terry B

I can't speak for the Heq5 but the EQ6 spigot is removeable and can be placed on either side of the tripod giving you the choice of 1 or 2 legs aiming south.

Hi Terry; well, likewise, I can't speak for the EQ6; but owning an HEQ5 Pro, I can definitely assure you that this mount (the one the thread poster asked about) doesn't have a moveable spigot; it is a part of the casting that constitues the tripod head assembly and is directly over the (by definition) southern leg!

Cheers, Darryl.

Starkler (Geoff) · #14 17-03-2008, 11:52 PM

I have just been playing with the mount again and tonight it is behaving more like I would expect.

My next challenge is polar aligning. In my suburban backyard with the moon out I cant see *any* stars in the polar scope and yes I checked to see that the dec was rotated to the right place first. Are the octans stars normally that hard to see?
This drift aligning caper is going to take some working out.

Prickly · #15 17-03-2008, 11:53 PM

Hi,

With my Eq6 I never polar allign (in part due to a large badly positioned pine tree) and being a bit lazy! So its pretty hit and miss with the 3 star allign. After a careful 3 star allign all usually goes well for me, but occasionally I get the allignment unsuccessful message. Like Terry suggested I try and balance really well and make sure I choose widely separated stars (occasionally the selection using the up/down arrow keys will be quite limited which I cant quite work out). I usually star up pointing south so perhaps Ive been doing it wrong (will have to recheck the manual).

Main reason for post is to say that the half pillar is really good at limiting the risk of collisions. I use one with my 140mm refractor and have never had to worry. They secure on very well and are not too expensive. I also keep the legs down low that way too (which hopefully helps with vibrations).

Cheers
David

h0ughy (David) · #16 18-03-2008, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starkler

...................
This drift aligning caper is going to take some working out.

yes it does but it is worth it

Kokatha man · #17 18-03-2008, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starkler

I have just been playing with the mount again and tonight it is behaving more like I would expect.

My next challenge is polar aligning. In my suburban backyard with the moon out I cant see *any* stars in the polar scope and yes I checked to see that the dec was rotated to the right place first. Are the octans stars normally that hard to see?
This drift aligning caper is going to take some working out.

Alan Gould and I have had a few discussions re the HEQ5 Pro, centred around the polar scope in this forum Geoff - have you set up the reticle itself in the daytime? That's the process of aligning it with some fixed distant object and adjusting the reticles "alignment" with the allan key to make sure its' position is "stable" relative to scope axis movement: a "must do" before successfully employing the polar scope.

I nearly didn't bother because of the "erratic" adjustment jumps caused by the grub screw "tuning" but persisted: even though I can see Sigma Octans with my naked eyes (but can't read my mobile phone screen!) I must confess that I think it's good for people to familiarize themselves with the Octans area via some reasonable binoculars first, to get a hang of the neighbourhood.

As Alan comments, the LED illumination is over-bright: flicking it on and off is one way of seeing the reticle and synchronizing it with the Octans reticle in the polar scope.

I had thought of a brightness control for the LED (some just don't use it) but I don't generally bother too much with the polar scope - have just checked through it a couple of times after starting to dismantle my gear following an ob session to see what it said!

I align my main scope via a 12.5mm illuminated reticle ep, employing one of those devices that cause so much concern in Victoria; the green laser pointer. I've modified them (one for each scope) so that they have remote (but not wireless yet!) switching and better/more stable and accurate positioning in Lumicon holders - iceman will download my submitted Mk1 article on this soon : I flick 'em on, hit Sigma Octans with the green beam and then look into my scope's ep to get its' x-hairs smack on the SCP - drift aligning is often unnecesarry (not that I'm imaging as yet) because I can hold objects in the cross-hairs of that 12.5 mm ep without any troubles for ages. Obviously I've my laser well-aligned with my scope..... and it helps to have the roomy padded carry box I've made to keep each scope in, that "suspends" and protects things like finders etc from being "knocked" out of wack.

Initial set-up is also expedited because I have an old survey compass with magnifying prism that I can read off one-eigth of one degrees from - it is fixed to a tube "stalk" when in use, that has a round wooden "plug" at its' base that fits snugly into the 60mm deep circular recess atop the tripod.

This isolates the compass from any magnetic interference from the bolt that affixes the tripod top to the EQ head. Naturally, the bolt is screwed right down below the bottom of the "well" for this procedure; necessary also for using a "bullet" bubble level that sits nicely in this recess for initial mount levelling.

Regards.....

Kokatha man · #18 18-03-2008, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kokatha man

Initial set-up is also expedited because I have an old survey compass with magnifying prism that I can read off one-eigth of one degrees from - it is fixed to a tube "stalk" when in use, that has a round wooden "plug" at its' base that fits snugly into the 60mm deep circular recess atop the tripod.

Regards.....

That bit should have read "60mm diameter recess atop the tripod."

Terry B · #19 18-03-2008, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starkler

I have just been playing with the mount again and tonight it is behaving more like I would expect.

My next challenge is polar aligning. In my suburban backyard with the moon out I cant see *any* stars in the polar scope and yes I checked to see that the dec was rotated to the right place first. Are the octans stars normally that hard to see?
This drift aligning caper is going to take some working out.

Make sure you can see anything through the polar scope. The mount has to be aimed E/W to see through or the axis is blocked by the dec housing.

Kokatha man · #20 18-03-2008, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terry B

Make sure you can see anything through the polar scope. The mount has to be aimed E/W to see through or the axis is blocked by the dec housing.

.....and of course remove both end caps, and release and extend the counter-weight shaft Geoff..........!

These last 2 posts presume you're really slow off the mark Geoff! (only joking/stirring from my perspective Geoff, as I hope my previous verbose - and comprehensive - post indicates brother!)

Best regards, Darryl.