Advice on a new scope...

[Mr. Subatomic]

Hi everyone,

I am looking at buying a new scope to replace my Dob and I'm after something for visual observations (not photography at this stage) and is also light and portable (literally set up in seconds or minutes- a true "plonk 'n' go" scope).

I'm considering buying:

Skywatcher 102mm x 500mm refractor on an AZ3 mount ($479)

or

Skywatcher 102mm Maksutov with single axis (RA) motor drive kit on a EQ2 mount ($549)

My needs are simplistic as my overall goal is to buy a telescope that will get me outside the most.

Do you think there are any reasons for me not to buy either one based on my requirements?

Does that particular equatorial mount on the Mak require a lot to set up?

I thought I would get as much advice as possible before I made a decision, and I figured you are the guys with a wealth of knowledge!

Thanks for your help.

Cheers!

[iceman (Mike)]

Hi Mischa.

Can you explain why your 10" dob is not grab and go enough for you?
Is it too big and heavy?

[janoskiss (Steve H)]

Neither of those scopes is very versatile. The achromat has severe chromatic aberration but would be okay for low power / widefield. The Mak's got long F.L. and narrow FOV, but not enough aperture to really excite on the planets (I used to own one, ie SW 102mm mak). An ED80 would do everything that these two scopes do and more. So in that sort of size I'd recommend you go with an ED80 on a Vixen Porta mount (or similar) - much better than the AZ3. Or a 5" Newt on the same mount (check out Starkler's setup).

[rmcpb (Rob)]

If its a "plonk and go" scope then an Alt/Az mount is for you, otherwise you will be polar aligning the EQ mount.

I have to repeat Mike's question, why not use the 10"?

[Kokatha man]

Hi Mischa and Mike - I can sympathise with your thoughts Mischa; to Mike I would say that there are many people who just enjoy the visceral pleasures of "star-watching" and just want a "plonk and go" tool. Definitely no offence Mike - and I'm a 2 bob each way man; but a lot of people never get to actually enjoy AA, weighted down with everyone's expectations of "what they should do/get/use."

I've got a 10"dob and although manageable (glad I didn't get a 12") it is pushing the limits (I'm older but not too darn weaker - you should try getting up onto my viewing platform) and if you want optimum performance you need regular collimating with a newt: especially if it's bumped around a bit.

The only real question you need to ask yourself Mischa is do you want some sort of tracking ability - very handy when you ramp up the magnification, or for sharing views with others!

Some goto/tracking mounts are very simple whilst others need more sophisticated/involved setup procedures, and then there's the cost.

Can't comment on the maks but I can tell you (and reviews in IIS and other forums will confirm this) that the Skywatcher achromatic refractors deliver a darn good result regardless of some opinions: I've got an f8 150mm, but it seems the shorties are no slouches either - and much easier/better as "plonk and go's" than most anythimg else. Very forgiving of transport too.

The 100mm (or the 120/150mm shorties at very comp prices at Andrews) are an ideal scope for anyone who just wants to maximise their ability to just "get out there and be entranced."

Cheers, Darryl.

[mick pinner]

IMO if you want a portable easy use scope with decent views you could not beat an Orion ED80 and a Vixen Porta Mount, the ED80 is easily the best value for money refractor you can buy and the mount gives you the ability to use a range of OTA's.

[Starkler (Geoff)]

Small portable scope of the types discussed here are no replacement for a 10" dob, they are just too different in light grasp and give totally different results.
I started with a 10" dob same as yours and bought an ed80 as a second scope. I was very disappointed in the limited light grasp of such a small scope and it really brought home to me that 'aperture rules'.

I then bought this and immediately put the ed80 for sale after seeing the difference a bit more aperture gives.

[iceman (Mike)]

I'm not suggesting the 10" is the must-have scope for Mischa - but just want to make sure that the problems of the current scope, and expectations of a newer, smaller scope, are fully known.

I agree the 10" with base is quite a big scope for a small person - certainly not grab and go. But the dob base is about as easy as you can get - so maybe a 6" dob might be better.

Do you want an EQ or Alt-Az mount? Does it have to be on a tripod? Do you plan to use it for terrestrial viewing too?

[Mr. Subatomic]

Hey guys,

The reason why I want t change scopes is that I'm finding less and less time for observing (I'm doing my HSC at the moment) and I need something that is just a plonk and go scope that requires little maintenance, that's why I was looking at those particular scopes.

I never doubted the capabilities of the 10" Dob, I have always thought of it as an excellent piece of equipment, but it's not the right scope for me. I'm sure a lot of you would agree that the best scope is the one that you use the most rather than one that gathers dust and is only used rarely.

In response to iceman, I only plan to use it for astronomy and not terrestrial. I guess I just want a mount that simple and easy to use without compensating stability.

I looked at the SW ED80 from Andrews for $499 but found out it comes with no finderscope or diagonal, and $700-$800 for the complete OTA was a bit out of my price range.

[Kokatha man]

Hi all - I'm sure you weren't Mike: as far as being helpfull towards people I think your record speaks for itself, ditto everyone else here. I just like to take a different stance to what often becomes a standard response to these "advice sought..." questions: I'm presuming that Mischa is adult enough to have formed a view that his 10 incher doesn't facilitate his desire to quote: "get me outside the most."

As for the ED80, I respect all your opinions, but quite frankly, having only recently looked through one, to me it "wouldn't pull the skin off a custard" re it's resolving power, despite very good optics. Starkler makes a pertinent point there I think.

As for my suggestion of an SW 120 or 150 achro shorty, well, some people carp on about CA till the cows come home, whilst others pointedly declare it to be a (relative) non-issue: I think that, as stated on this forum, people see what they want to see; and it really is amazing the mountains some fashion out of molehills.

I chuckle, thinking back to the days before ED's etc and imagining Patrick Moore or someone saying: "well.. I did state that this is, optically, a very fine 4" achromatic refractor, a splendid tool for getting out there with to appreciate the night sky: but with the benefit of hindsight I'd have to say it's s@#**!

As I pointed out in my post, there are a couple of these basic little numbers in the IIS review that are appraised fullsomely: someone in the IIS traders is selling a 120mm job (OTA) for a couple of hundred bucks (yeah, yeah). Another post I think makes a comparison with an ED80 - albeit he was looking at birds?!?

Which is really to say that presuming Mischa isn't a nong (and I don't think you are Mischa) he could couple one of the aforementioned to a mount of his choosing and get something that isn't aperture fix but (possibly) really quite suitable for his wants for a very reasonable cost.

ps - Hope no-one takes offence at my ED80 comments Mick: one day before I'm too much older and whiter, and after I win the lottery and when the chinese are selling lightweight high quality apo triplet refractors up to 12" apeture for $100 per inch - I'll be first in line, knocking queue jumpers out of my way with my old 6" achro OTA!pps - how's my pier coming along Mick?!

Cheers all round, Darryl.

[Mr. Subatomic]

I've just been doing some more research and was wondering whether the Skywatcher and Orion 80mm short tube achromatic refractors are the exact same scope, only different colour label?

I suppose most scope are more or less made by only a few companies anyway.

[Blue Skies (Jacquie)]

Originally Posted by Mr. Subatomic

I've just been doing some more research and was wondering whether the Skywatcher and Orion 80mm short tube achromatic refractors are the exact same scope, only different colour label?

I suppose most scope are more or less made by only a few companies anyway.

That could be the case.

While I am also curious as to why the 10" doesn't meet your needs, I've seen and used 10" scopes enough to know that they aren't the easiest thing for everyone to carry, especially if you have a bad back back/arm/shoulder etc. I sometimes find even my 8" a pain to lug out the door and wish I had something simpler for chasing comets in the early morning sky.

"Ease of use" can be quite subjective - I once spoke with a family who considered an Astroscan hard to use! I had to tell them they couldn't get anything simpler...(although to be fair they can be tricky to point if you're not used to using telescopes)

Now some constructive comments on your choices mentioned in your first post (I'm not about to bag them, just point out some observations of mine):

The AZ3 mounts that I am familiar with can't point directly at the zenith unless you take them apart and put them together backwards. Perhaps that has changed in recent years but I haven't seen any recently sold ones so I don't know.

The EQ2 mount is still going to have a bit of weight to it, mainly on the counterweight. So if you are trying to avoid a weight issue I don't think this will solve it. The little Maks aren't all bad (I have an old 4" Meade SCT that got me started and showed me all sorts of things) so you would be probably be happy with that, it's jut the mount that might let you down in your quest for easiness. Setting it up south is not the issue, if you have a regular spot for observing you can mark the ground where the tripod feet should sit once you work out the best arrangement and that should make set up quite easy.

Another thing with both these set ups is that the finderscope will still be awkward to look through if you are looking at the zenith again. It's hard to get around that problem unless you get a right-angle finder of some kind. I mention this because I know some people hate leaning over their dobs to look in the finder where they are traditionally placed on the far side of the focuser.

[acropolite (Phil)]

Mischa, a dob requires very little maintenance and aside from having to take it outside some time before observing to allow some cooldown time it would be easier to set up than an AZ3 mount. As the others have said, anything around or under 100mm will not have much resolving power, 8 inches (200mm) is about the minimum I would aim for.

If you're going for an Alt Az tripod type mount then either the Vixen porta mount or the GS copy will be better than the AZ3 as they have a balanced mounting arrangement and slow motion controls that work over the full range of movement (unlike the Az3)
The Az3 mount is poorly balanced; it has the OTA above the alt pivot point and the OTA tends to topple if the friction adjustment isn't set just right. The slow motion controls on the Az3 are limited in range and have to be frequently reset. I bought an AZ3 mount, used it once only and immediately bought a porta mount to replace it. The GS clone is of the porta mount is available (mount only) for $249 at Andrews I believe. The GS item, despite having sturdier legs is not as rigid as the Vixen Porta IMO.

If you really want a portable setup with a good useable mount, then you can't go past the Porta mount newt combo that Geoff (starkler) recommended, even though it will cost you a couple of hundred over your intended budget.