Interesting news from Meade

[OneOfOne (Trevor)]

I was just reading this article on S&T about some production changes at Meade with some scopes temporarily suspended and some discontinued altogether (like Ca PST, MAX Mount...so if you want any of these you better get them now).

http://www.skyandtelescope.com/commu.../10819876.html

[[1ponders] (Paul)]

I'm not surprised that MaxMount is being "suspended indefinately" Way overpriced when you consider some of the high quality known competition. Also the "suspension" of the RCX does not come as a surprise either. I am still to work out why such an advance imaging scope would be placed on a fork mount with the wedge for it as an after market accessory.

Looking forward to seeing what they come out with to make up for the withdrawls.

[Alchemy (Clive)]

those who get the newsletter from american sky and telescope, will have noticed an article about meades woes financially (something to that end anyway), perhaps a rearrangement of their buisiness to make it more profitable.

[Ric]

From what I have been reading on other forums it would seem that Meade will probably be relocating to Mexico and outsourcing to China as well.

Meade seem to also be downsizing their staff as well mainly in the admin areas from what I have read. Seems like the technicians are safe for the moment

Cheers

[ballaratdragons (Ken)]

Previously, it has been mentioned that Meade advertising has vanished from the pages of AS&T magazine.

So what!

They don't need to spend any money on advertising. Just have a look how often shops advertise for them, for free to Meade!!!

Open your Nov/Dec issue of Aust Sky&Tel.

Here are the amount of times Meade is advertised without themselves advertising: Pages 9, 11 & 17.

Meade need never spend another cent on advertising and their name will still be advertised by others.

[CoombellKid]

There has been a bit of a hum across some foums about meade for some
months. It is why I have not sent in my PST for repair of the objective.
The problem has not caused any ill effect on the views. But all the same
I dont want it sitting on the floor when the recievers walk in.

The bottom line is Meade dis-associated itself from it's customers, just
try looking for and easy way to contact them apart from ringing them
directly. And then they dis-associated them selves from there distributers,
try getting some thing fixed/repaired under warrenty over that last few
months maybe 12 months. I've had a feeling about meade for several years,
T@$co ring a bell???

regards,CS

[ballaratdragons (Ken)]

Originally Posted by CoombellKid

I've had a feeling about meade for several years,
T@$co ring a bell???

regards,CS

Tasco is doing very well. They still sell a gazillion scopes in Toy Shops and Department stores, Plus they are the importer for Skywatcher!!!!

Tasco ain't dissappearing.

[turbo_pascale (Rob)]

This clears up a few things:

http://www.astromart.com/classifieds...fied_id=530374

Turbo

[GrahamL]

Paul Sonkin still holds a controlling interest in the biz
after spending quite a bit of cash over the last few years .. his company would of bailed on meade if it was not viable in the long term ...you'd think ??.. offshore manufacturing is sadly imo ..the only way many can survive these days.. we benefit I guess In the price point is always at a minimum which is what we all wan't .. service and customer support ?
who knows .. it shouldn't be that hard to get it right if you wan't the company to survive.

time will tell i guess

[[1ponders] (Paul)]

Our obligation will be to our shareholders to maximize the value of their shares,

This always makes me cringe when I read it anywhere. I was always brought up to believe that your first loyalty was to your customers.

[ballaratdragons (Ken)]

Originally Posted by [1ponders]

This always makes me cringe when I read it anywhere. I was always brought up to believe that your first loyalty was to your customers.

So true, Paul!

If you don't look after your customers first, the Shareholders then suffer, then in turn the customers suffer.

If you look after the Shareholders first, the customers suffer, then in turn the Shareholders suffer anyway.

Makes obvious sense who should be first.

Customers make a business! then the Shareholders make their profit!

[seeker372011 (Narayan)]

see http://www.iceinspace.com.au/forum/s...8&postcount=22

Meade is a 100 million $ company. For the last two years they have made losses of $15 million (order of magnitude). Discovery Stores-who were a major channel for the ETX range getting out of telescopes has not helped revenues -which have remained static -while selling general and admin expenses have grown by roughly 50 % compared to 2005

Meade's strategy now is to move manufacturing overseas-Mexico and China.

They hope the appointment of a buying agent in Hong Kong will help them overcome some of the problems they have faced in the past in terms of getting reliable supply out of China.
They have laid of 60% of Us staff apparently

in the meanwhile book value exceeds market value so they are ripe for raiders

In the short term the PST CaK has been discontinued and the RCX and other super premium range have been put on hold.

make no mistake there is blood in the water and the sharks no doubt will be circling

I personally hope they pull out of this problem -maybe strong pre christmas sales will help-or find a white knight soon.Otherwise...

[dugnsuz (Doug)]

Originally Posted by [1ponders]

This always makes me cringe when I read it anywhere. I was always brought up to believe that your first loyalty was to your customers.

Originally Posted by ballaratdragons

So true, Paul!

If you don't look after your customers first, the Shareholders then suffer, then in turn the customers suffer.

If you look after the Shareholders first, the customers suffer, then in turn the Shareholders suffer anyway.

Makes obvious sense who should be first.

Customers make a business! then the Shareholders make their profit!

Agree totally...

Cut jobs to maximise shareholder profits...
Use cheaper/poorer materials in manufacture to maximise shareholder profits...

And that's all passed down to thee and me!!!

In the early 90's I had a Celestron C8, I bought a load of compatable/cheaper Meade accessories - they were crap in comparison to the Celestron gear, put me off Meade to this day!

Doug

[ngcles]

Hi All,

Interesting thread.

Without entering the debate or commenting one way or the other on their 'scopes and other related customer issues, speculation has been rife for some time about Meade and what the future holds for them and the announcement really only confirms what many have suspected for quite a while. There has been a steady, quiet contraction of a lot of what they do going on for a few years -- no doubt to shore-up their bottom line in the face of Chinese (etc) made competition.

But, will Meade disappear?

Nah! -- not on your life I'd reckon.

Some interesting times are ahead no doubt but I'd be very, very surprised if it disappears as a major manufacturer of 'scopes. They, like so many others are finding it very difficult (impossible) to compete with labour costs as they are in the U.S. Rightly or wrongly, a lot of Australian manufacturers have moved their factories overseas for the same reason -- Meade are far from alone. Maybe there will be some change in ownership -- who knows but I doubt that too.

One only has to look at Fender (U.S guitar manufacturer) for example as a similar situation. They made simply great, iconic guitars in the 50s and 60s. They were bought out by CBS in the late 60s who introduced a number of "innovations" to cut costs etc but in the end the badge name lost credo. One of their other (main) difficulties was that there were so many Asian and other knock-offs of Fender designs that were being sold at 1/5th the price of a genuine U.S Stratocaster or Telecaster. Sure they weren't as good as the real-deal, but the price-tag was a killer.

What did Fender do?

The employees eventually bought the company back from CBS (in the 80s I think) To compete, they knocked themselves off! They made "Fender Squire" Strats in Asia (Japan, Korea, Indonesia) that were good but not quite a real Fender but, they were 1/4 the price of a genuine Fender and still had a Fender badge on them (to some extent). Then, later on they began their own lines of genuine "Fender" knock-offs -- manufacturing genuine Tele's and Strat's in Japan, and Mexico. In many cases virtually as good as a genuine US Strat and at less than 1/2 the price (Some even reckon the Jap strats are better than the US ones)! Fender were back in business big time! You can still buy a U.S made Strat or Tele -- expect a hefty premium on the tag though. Meanwhile, Fender are not only back, they're bigger than ever.

There is a saying about Fender that their Mexican Strats are made in Mexico by skilled Mexican craftsmen, while their US Strats are made in the US by skilled Mexican craftsmen -- in fact the two factories in the US and Mexico are only a short distance apart. I've got a Fender Mexican standard Strat (Black, Maple neck and fretboard, Fat HSS setup -- for those interested) and it is virtually indistinguishable in sound quality and appearance from a US made Strat.

Meade, in a similar way will find a way to re-invent themselves and I think there is little doubt that they will once again be financially successful. As others have noted above, the most important thing to do is to put the customer first -- same as any business. That done the shareholders will reap the returns.

I do however wonder what this bodes for the outcome of the law-suit over the R/C issue with R/C optical and Star Instruments etc?

Looking forward to a long-weekend away up-bush with the 'scope next weekend. Hope the weather improves!

Best,

Les D
Contributing Editor
AS&T

[mlcolbert]

Les and everyone Hi,

it is 'just' a sign of the times, take a 'solid' product / service provide it cheaper and then continue to make profit. As you give the example of Fender, this applies to many other brands as well. I'm sure that others reading this thread will be able to contribute literally hundreds of brands where a similar thing has ocurred. Airfix, Triang - Hornby? I believe are others. This is one of the reasons that for Meade, Celestron etc, they have lost a potential customer in me and why my choice is for a telescope which is clearly no longer made but of excellent quality(zeiss, whereas many years ago I owned a C8). To my way of thinking, ce la vie! Market forces at work will alienate some customers. These are simply observations.

Re the RC issue, wasn't this settled a few months ago with Meade out of court? Or is this a seperate case with Star Instruments, I'm sorry I can't keep track of which company owns which.

michael

[AstroJunk (Jonathan)]

It’s all a bit tragic really. Meade and Celestron made serious astronomy possible and available to the (originally wealthy) masses. The kept the magazines alive with their advertising, and pumped money into R&D and brought us fabulous telescopes and supporting technologies. Without those guys, we would be grubbing around in the dirt still.

And it seems that Meade hasn’t gone far wrong with their products (whilst there have been issues as an ex-Meade owner) but they have failed their customers AND their shareholders by not moving their manufacturing much earlier ie 10 years ago. It is the folly of patriotism. The Made in the USA tag has cost them dearly.

And for us – where will we be able to get cheap mass-produced replicas if there is nothing new to copy. What happens to those fabulous companies that produce after-market accessories for these scopes.

I recon we should show pay homage by buying a Meade product for xmas

[h0ughy (David)]

lets hope they stay around, I like the arguement mine is better than your celestron the classic ford V's holden tag line. In this case both will be probably made inthe same factory - now thats the irony!!!!

[mlcolbert]

that's what happens in electronics doesn't it?

michael

[rumples riot]

Official statments have been made in the OC Register (paper).

To be honest I could see this coming ages ago. Celestron moved 2 years ago and their instruments are still good. My C14, is one fine scope and my images seem to indicate that is the case. My C9.25 was the same too. In other words moving off shore is not a death sentence.

However, given the range of products and the problems they inherited when buying Coronado I am not certain they can survive. The PST and rust issue has really hurt Coronado which now that Meade owns it has hurt Meade too. Added to this is the legal cases brought against them. There was the autostar issue and the RC issue. Both cost the company millions in legal fees and losses.

It might not get better, I hope it does so that Celestron has some competition. A monopoly will result in price rises.

Time will tell though.