MaxPoint - First trail failed will they give me a new 30 day evaluation?

[g__day (Matthew)]

Well about 6 months ago I trialled MaxPoint for my CG5 - but couldn't get it functioning. Now with the Atlux I'd like to try again.

Trouble is once you've installed it once - your 30 day trial expires forever - even if the trial fails!

I've written to the distributors explaining my situation - it will be interesting to see if they give me a 30 day trial code - stay tuned!

PS

The web site says no refund if the product serial is issued, however they also warrant it will work on all ASCOM scopes. So if it doesn't work it fails the Australian Electronic Payments act and Trades Practices Sect 52 and 54 - goods fit for purpose of the sale - and you could repudiate the payment - wonder what happens then?

[g__day (Matthew)]

Well got frustrated so tried it on a second PC as a trial. Trouble!

MaxPoint installs fine, but it says the SkySensor2000-PC isn't connected when oh yes it is!

CDC can see it fine, and if CDC is set to launch Maxpoint - that's okay - but MaxPoint won't believe the SS2K is present and connected?

Any ideas folks? SS2K is in LX200 emulation mode - but even as a ASCOM LX200 type mount MaxPoint can't see it!

[jase (Jason)]

Take MaxPoint out of the picture - Does ASCOM POTH connect successfully to SS2k?
If not, its not a MaxPoint issue but ASCOM. MaxPoint purely relies on the ASCOM API, it does not have its own. Also, make sure MaxPoint is the ASCOM hub(server), then connect all your clients to it (such as CDC, TheSky, FocusMax, MaximDL etc) to Maxpoint (instead of POTH). Note, you can't run two hubs so you'll need to ditch POTH if you're using MaxPoint. Be careful as FocusMax and other software can also act as hub if configured to do so.

[g__day (Matthew)]

Jase,

Will trial it shortly. From memory yes selecting POTH in CDC worked okay.

ASCOM Validator runs fine on my PC <-> mount interface. One user on the SS2K forums said uh-oh you need the 2.06 ROM or higher (and turn of firewalls and virus scanners?)

Another user says he uses guide - but MaxPoint doesn't connect until you issue a slew (but if you don't know where the scope is in CDC how do you safely issue a slew?

When you say make MaxPoint the ASCOM hub(server) - how exactly? Do I set CDC to MaxPoint, Maxpoint to POTH and POTH to SS2K?

Or instead of POTH do I use Dome Control and Hub and set Dome to null?

If that is so do I start POTH first, then MaxPoint then tell CDC to connect?

Many thanks for your help!

[Terry B]

G Day
Have you tried connecting to the skysensor with any other programs?
I use to use Audela to connect to mine. It can also link through CDC and has a maxpoint like function. You can connect via ASCOM or just tell it it is a LX200.

[g__day (Matthew)]

Well - turns out the key things is MaxPoint doesn't connect UNTIL you Press Connect from the CDC Driver pointing to Maxpoint - bingo everything just switches on!

Simple piece of missing documentation! I was pressing every button on MaxPoint trying to connect - grrrh!


Nudges work too!

Now I have to quickly read the documentation and learn how to calibrate the mount!

Thanks all!

PS

Strange behaviour number 5 - now CDC won't centre where the scope is pointing! Centre does nothing!

Smaller annoyance than before at least!

Thanks all!

[g__day (Matthew)]

Next time I'll read the manual - but it just goes to show how one seemingly reasonable assumption can cause so much bother!

BTW

Interesting talking to the guys who wrote MaxPoint - I guess they never expected a trial to fail, so they say they have no way to issue a new 30 day test license if you wish to evaluate a second mount ...

What does that tell me - given their register software option asks for name, e-mail, license and license expiry date? I had figured they just issue a new licence that expires in 30 days - no they say they can't!

It tells me they use hidden registery fields to map the 30 days - probably in a bogey fashion, and uninstall doesn't clear this stuff from the register. I don't like the practice of leaving hidden keys and other garbage in my registery file - it slows things down over time significantly and leads to instability. Given its a 30 day trial from a set date well it wouldn't be too hard to find and erase this key - but I just can't be bothered - folk should learn better programming practices!

[jase (Jason)]

Originally Posted by g__day

What does that tell me - given their register software option asks for name, e-mail, license and license expiry date? I had figured they just issue a new licence that expires in 30 days - no they say they can't!

It tells me they use hidden registery fields to map the 30 days - probably in a bogey fashion, and uninstall doesn't clear this stuff from the register. I don't like the practice of leaving hidden keys and other garbage in my registery file - it slows things down over time significantly and leads to instability. Given its a 30 day trial from a set date well it wouldn't be too hard to find and erase this key - but I just can't be bothered - folk should learn better programming practices!

Correct. Cyanogen/Diffraction Limited use your name and license expiry date which is hashed to provide a unique activation key.

Uninstall does not clear the activation key. This is normal behaviour as users would simply get around purchasing the software by uninstalling, then reinstalling. PEMPro does the same. If you use a program like tripwire, it will monitor your system for changes (both file and registry). Then when installing Maxpoint, you will know exactly what changes have been made to your system. Once you have this, you can successfully circumvent the activation key. Tripwire is typically used to detect hacking activities and produce audit trails. I would like to state that I don't recommend or endorse such activities. If you like the software, support the developer - buy it. Seriously for $150US its worth its weight in gold.

Having stated all this and as a user of Maxpoint - its a very easy system to use. Though, I've started researching alternatives (of the non-bisque kind). Don't get me wrong, I like their software and am a regular user of TheSky6 Pro, however its disappointing to see a company not endorse ASCOM. As an ASCOM aficionado, I'm looking at heading down the pinpoint avenue perhaps standalone or integrated with ACP or CCDAutoPilot. Not certain yet.

Keep in mind you need to ask yourself what you want to achieve. Improving the mount modelling will assist in accuracy, however if you are doing basic plate solving the mount can easily adjust itself to center objects on a chip without an excellent pointing model (though it will assist).

[g__day (Matthew)]

Jase,

Agreed - most of what I want is:

1) better goto accuracy for when I'm remote controlling the mount and it lands in the guiders CCD but not well centred in the main camera's CCD

and

2) a way of nudging the scope! Looks like MaxPoint will give me this!

* * * * *

Now if I could just get CDC to centre its skymaps when I execute a goto - for some reasons switching to MaxPoint as the driver - CDC doesn't slew the sky map to where I'm pointing?

[jase (Jason)]

Ok, I now understand.
Are you using an off axis guider or separate guidescope? If its the latter then finding a guidestar is a breeze. What is important and should be the primary focus is to center/compose the object on the main imaging chip. Don't worry about the guide chip at the moment. A good pointing model using maxpoint will get you close, but to center the object with sub arcsecond precision repeatedly you'll need to plate solve. The smaller the imaging chip the more valuable the pointing model/plate solve functions are. In fact for remote imaging, it is near impossible to operate without these two functions.

Note, the accuracy of the pointing model is not only going to be limited by your mounts capabilities, but also the optical design. SCT's typically have inherent mirror flop. A pointing model can handle this reasonably well as it maps objects across the sky. However, if the mirror does not flop or flex the same amount every time its a specific area of the sky then accuracy issues will occur. You'll need to work out what works best for your equipment configuration.

Nudging? Why do you need it? If you are plate solving the object or coordinates you enter will be centered on the chip with sub arcsecond precision every time. There will be no need to nudge. If you are nudging because you want to find a suitable guidestar for your off axis guider, then this opens a different discussion around planning the imaging session by enabling FOV indicators.

I'm afraid I've only used CDC a few times so can't comment on its capabilities. I haven't done this before, but try connecting POTH to maxpoint, then CDC to POTH. I've found the two hubs conflict, but it might work in your situation.

[g__day (Matthew)]

Jase,

I run an Megrez 80 mmas my usual guidescope. I check things are centred via a test shot or simply looking at PHD - over a network from a distance on cold nights!

True - but if I'm remote controlling via the internet I need a way of correcting a gotos that is fractionally off. MaxPoint gives me this by taking command of my observatories PC via running VNC server and client over my network!

Yippee

[g__day (Matthew)]

Well I go an evaluation version working* today - as far as goto's - not nudges are concerned. Let me comment how things went.

In "calibrate" mode you simply goto as many reference stars as you wish and after the slew is complete, correct the mount's pointing until its aimis spot on. If the mount is of sufficient quality that goto's are consistent, then pointing errors can be modelled and subtracted out - or corrected for.

So after 16 calibration stars widely placed on my first test run how did it go? Spot on. I mean every single slew was dead centre of my Camera's eyepiece - no matter where in the sky I went. It also informed me I was 2 minutes off by Alititude and 4 minutes by Azimuth from the SCP.

So for a first case test run I found this substantially impressive. Now I am left with trying to understand what is happening when I issue a command from MaxPoint to nudge mount a set distance in a set direction -wierd stuff seems to happen and it then affects the pointing accuracy of my gear.

So for thw Atlux under SkySensor2000-PC - MaxPoint is a dream. More play to do this week to sort out its full potential!

[jase (Jason)]

For basic nudging, you don't want to lock the target. Lock target is used to determine the point model error when aligning. If locked, I believe the pointing model is updated. To be honest, I haven't needed to nudge - ever. With a good pointing model and plate solves you will get the telescope pointing with arcsecond precision. This makes object framing/composition easy and predictable.

If you are impressed with the pointing accuracy with a 16 star calibration run, try a plate solved auto calibration run of 80 to 100 stars. This is actually fun to sit back and watch as the telescope slews, take an image, plate solves it against a catalogue, determines the pointing error then automatically slews to another star to do the process over and over again. Its like doing a supernova search of 300+ galaxies in quick succession. You'll need software that will do the plate solve for you to automate things. I wouldn't trust the polar misalignment until you've calibrated more stars.

[g__day (Matthew)]

Ahah! I may well have had Lock target switched on! Have to read the manual more carefully! I might not have correctly told it finished calibration - onto adjusted gotos please.

Still nudges West never seemed to move at all? The other directions worked better from memory. I'll read the manual then explore more hopefully tonight.

Mind you I thought initially you had to adjust the pointing from the PC - not the handcontroller if you wished (which made the task very cumbersome). My first nudge was accidently 30 degrees instead of 30 seconds - a what the heck moment until I understood what I'd done.

I ponder if my mount under ASCOM executes minor nudges properly at all. You'd think it would be a trivial task - but for some reason it's a pain in the, ah, neck!

[g__day (Matthew)]

Nopers - Nudging does seem to do random movements - no matter what direction is chosen?????