Equipment prices in Australia

[Louwai (Bryan)]

I'm sure this topic has been done to death, but I just wanted to add my bit.

So why is Astro gear SOOOO expensive in AU????
As an excersize I priced a Kendrick Dew Heater package. These prices were taken from a US on-line shop who I have dealt with for other items & they will sell to AU no problems.

1 x Premier Ctrl package (which includes extras)
1 x Controler holder for Tripod
1 x 2" EP heater
2 x 3" heaters
1 x 8" heater

I can purchase all of the above RETAIL from the US + Shipping Delivered to my house in Melbourne for AU$799.00 (using $0.80 as the exchange rate)
................................... ................................... ...............
I got the AU price from a well known on-line shop.
I was not able to price the exact same quantity of components in AU as they do not advertise all of them. BUT From AU;

1 x Premier Ctrl package (including extras)
1 x 2" EP heater
1 x 8" OTA heater
The above added up to AU$907.00 and this price DID NOT include delivery to my home in Melbourne.
AU$107 MORE without postage for 3 LESS items.
Go figure!!!!!!!!

You may note that in the US price I have not included 5% import duty or 10% GST. That's because any purchase from overseas which is less than AU$1000 does not attract these charges.
If over AU$1000 you will be required to pay these + AU$100 for Customs Clearance.

The Controler is advertised in AU at a retail price of AU$659. US advertise the exact same item RETAIL for AU$373 ($0.80 exchange rate)
That's RETAIL. So US are still making a profit on that. Granted AU's price includes GST, but that makes the actual price AU$600. Still AU$226 above the US retail price.
If AU buy in bulk then they pay 5% Duty on the commodity cost from the manufacturer. Not a lot in that. They will also pay around AU$110 or so for the Customs clearance, but that cost is for the entire shipement NOT each item. Regardless of whether your shipment is the size of a shoe box or a 40' container. If the commodity cost is over AU$1000 you will pay AU$110 for a clearance.
Shipping cost depends on volume. I'm pretty sure the AU seller would not buy by the container load, so I thinks it's safe to say LCL charges apply.
From the US, LCL (cost per cubic metre) charges are very roughly about AU$700 / M3.
How many dew systems can you fit into 1 x M3. I'd say quite a few, so the shipping cost would not be very much on a per item basis. Being conservative, maybe AU$15 per Dew system.

The current US retail price for the Premier Ctrl is US$299 So I would guess that they are probaly buying it from Kendrick for around US$200 give or take a bit. Using the $0.80 exchange, that's AU$250 purchase from Kendrick.
So for the Premier ctroler in AU;
Commodity purchase from Kendrick AU$250 (assumed)
Shipping AU$10 (assuming 70 units per cubic metre which I think is VERY conservative)
Import duty @ 5% of $250 = $12.50
=
$250 + $10 + $12.50= AU$272.5
+ GST @ 10%
= AU$299.75

This is obviously not exact as I am not privey to the AU sellers actual costs.
But I'll bet my lefty that it's pretty damn close.
I own & operate an import business so I am very familiar with importing costs listed above.

Even making the dealer cost of the controler AU$350 to allow for any wrong assumptions, that is still AU$309 profit for 1 individual item.

[gbeal]

I agree, and in NZ, apart from the odd item here and there not much is available anyway. I import nearly everything I use astro wise.
I have noticed in the last month or so that USPS shipping has increased, and in some case it seems the "surface shipping" option has disappeared.
A real rough gut feeling guess on your package would be about US$25 - $30 for USPS air, 4 - 10 days.

[Louwai (Bryan)]

Originally Posted by gbeal

I agree, and in NZ, apart from the odd item here and there not much is available anyway. I import nearly everything I use astro wise.
I have noticed in the last month or so that USPS shipping has increased, and in some case it seems the "surface shipping" option has disappeared.
A real rough gut feeling guess on your package would be about US$25 - $30 for USPS air, 4 - 10 days.

Gary, I was actually quoted US$82 for USPS which is included in the AU$799 I mentioned.
So from your assumption the total could be even less.

Bryan

[WAR.Genius]

Hey
can I comment on this as well

I have the same problem..
I'm just about to buy the Celestron C6-SGT 6"
in Australia it costs me $2199 AUD from a major dealer.
If I order it from the US it is $1537 AUD with shipping.

I'm all about supporting Australian companies but not making $700 donations of money.

Is ordering from the US fine?
are there any stories not to?

Mark Mathew

[Louwai (Bryan)]

Originally Posted by WAR.Genius

Hey
can I comment on this as well

I have the same problem..
I'm just about to buy the Celestron C6-SGT 6"
in Australia it costs me $2199 AUD from a major dealer.
If I order it from the US it is $1537 AUD with shipping.

I'm all about supporting Australian companies but not making $700 donations of money.

Is ordering from the US fine?
are there any stories not to?

Mark Mathew

Mark, You'll probably find that no US dealer will sell you a Celestron scope. They are bound by agreements with Celestron not to sell outside of the US.

BUT, there are ways around that.
If you do choose to take a "side path" you'll find that you will forego your warranty.

I'm looking into getting a new CGE1400. Which, buying from the US (via a legal side path), paying all the legitimate costs & charges I'll land it in Melbourne for aprox AU$3000 less than buying it retail here.

Bryan

[RB (Andrew)]

Originally Posted by WAR.Genius

Is ordering from the US fine?
are there any stories not to?

Mark Mathew

Just make sure you check out how much Australian Customs will charge you once the item enters Australia.
If the value is less than $1000 there's no charge but anything after that you'll be charged a fee.

[Stephen65]

There are pricing differentials on some products which are impossible to explain simply by reference to foreign exchange rates, GST, shipping, import costs etc.

A large culprit to me seems to be situations where a US manufacturer appoints a sole distributor here, forbids their US dealers from selling to Australians and then sets Australian prices with a large markup over US prices assuming we have no choice but to pay them.

It's got to the stage with me where I simply refuse to buy products that have had their prices significantly inflated over comparable prices in the US. I either choose a competing product that is reasonably priced here or I buy directly from US dealers.

[Louwai (Bryan)]

Originally Posted by Rocket Boy

Just make sure you check out how much Australian Customs will charge you once the item enters Australia.
If the value is less than $1000 there's no charge but anything after that you'll be charged a fee.

Yes that's right.
If the total invoice value is over AU$1000 you'll be charged
1) Import Duty of 5% of the invoice value
+
2) Between $100 & $130 for a customs clearance
+
3) GST on the entire amount (Invoice value + Import Duty + Customs Clearance + shipping cost)

[Louwai (Bryan)]

Originally Posted by Stephen65

There are pricing differentials on some products which are impossible to explain simply by reference to foreign exchange rates, GST, shipping, import costs etc.

A large culprit to me seems to be situations where a US manufacturer appoints a sole distributor here, forbids their US dealers from selling to Australians and then sets Australian prices with a large markup over US prices assuming we have no choice but to pay them.

It's got to the stage with me where I simply refuse to buy products that have had their prices significantly inflated over comparable prices in the US. I either choose a competing product that is reasonably priced here or I buy directly from US dealers.

I think over the years australians have become used to higher prices. I'll give you another example.
As an importer I supply replacement water filter cartridges to a retailer in Brisbane. This water filter cartridge is sold retail by my client for $48ea. The exact same cartridge is sold in Bunnings for $29.95
I sell this cartridge to the guy in Bris at 100% profit for AU$3.15ea. YES THAT"S RIGHT !!!!!

I sell the same cartridge on Ebay for $7ea. many people will not buy from me at the cheap price because they believe it's cheap Chinese rubbish & they go & buy the EXACT same cartridge from Bunnings for $30. They assume that it's expensive so it must be good.

[Jackson42South (Paul)]

I recently purchased a Mount from the US, and was advised by the seller that USPS shipping has recently increased, and that surface shipping was not available.

I believe that surface shipping is still available but only if you lodge the goods at a post office, but most stores in the US now use the USPS Print and pay for shipping labels online service (the goods are then collected from the store). Surface shipping is not available via USPS online.

Originally Posted by gbeal

I agree, and in NZ, apart from the odd item here and there not much is available anyway. I import nearly everything I use astro wise.
I have noticed in the last month or so that USPS shipping has increased, and in some case it seems the "surface shipping" option has disappeared.
A real rough gut feeling guess on your package would be about US$25 - $30 for USPS air, 4 - 10 days.

[Louwai (Bryan)]

Originally Posted by Jackson42South

I recently purchased a Mount from the US, and was advised by the seller that USPS shipping has recently increased, and that surface shipping was not available.

I believe that surface shipping is still available but only if you lodge the goods at a post office, but most stores in the US now use the USPS Print and pay for shipping labels online service (the goods are then collected from the store). Surface shipping is not available via USPS online.

I recently bought a FeatherTouch focuser direct from them. They were FANTASTIC to deal with. Couldn't be more helpful. All items arrived in Melb within 4 working days after purchase.
HIGHLY RECOMENDED.

Don't forget Gary in NZ either........

[g__day (Matthew)]

If I buy The Sky6 Professional Edition from Astro Optical, it will cost me $475.00, if I buy it from Optcorp its USD $189.95 plus postage say $50 - so USD 240 / 0.88 is $272 - so a $200 mark up seems outrageous!

http://www.optcorp.com/product.aspx?...3-244-246-3597

[RB (Andrew)]

Originally Posted by g__day

If I buy The Sky6 Professional Edition from Astro Optical, it will cost me $475.00, if I buy it from Optcorp its USD $189.95 plus postage say $50 - so USD 240 / 0.88 is $272 - so a $200 mark up seems outrageous!

http://www.optcorp.com/product.aspx?...3-244-246-3597

I know this topic has been discussed so many times that it's not even worth replying to anymore.

But if you find a cheaper price from overseas, go for it !
We live in a "free" country and are allowed to vote with our money.

Better still, why don't you set up a physical shopfront in Crows Nest or in Glebe in the CBD supplying us with astro goodies from overseas so we can all take advantage of your lower prices.
Of coarse you would give us all mates rates and handle any returns and repairs with problem goods or with problem customers.

It's all to easy to shop online and find the cheapest price on the planet, add the shipping cost, convert to the Aussie dollar and Bob's your Auntie.

But it's Bintel we all run to for advice, it's Astro Optical we can walk into and see that scope in real life, then hop on the forums and bash the Aussie suppliers that have helped us progress in our wonderful hobby from back in the days when we didn't know which end of the scope to put the EP into.

Of coarse they are there to make a profit !
They are not the original manufacturer, hardly anything is made in Australia anymore !
There will always be a middle man and a markup.

So if you are willing to change things then set up shop and give them a run for their money.

[Alchemy (Clive)]

I have to agree with rocket boy.
Me i like to see and touch the items, ill give you an example, yesterday i went and purchased a illuminated reticle finderscope had alook through it and found a fault, said to the store manager have a look, and he swapped it over. You are not going to get that sort of service from OS. So i paid a little more but i went home satisfied and not having the frustration of a 3-6 week wait and maybee the same again.

[cydonia]

Couldn't have said it better my self Rocket boy.
It's Ozi distributers and dealers that keep Australian Astro magazines turning up to our doors, they also support local star parties as well as sites like this so users can vendor bash. Just look at the adverts on the top right side of this page.

Louwai, you just confessed to us that you mark up the stuff you sell by 100%...Some people would consider that outragous.

I would hate to try and have to put food on my families table by selling Astro gear in this country!

If you find an online price cheaper, then go for it. But don't be a hypocrite and run to Bintel, Astro Optical etc when it doesn'twork properly.

[merlin8r]

Thanks, Rocketboy!

[wavelandscott (Scott)]

As usual, this topic (and similar ones) can bring out lots of comment...

Like everyone else, I want to get as much "gear for my money" as possible, but we must never loose sight of the impact of our buying gear overseas...While we may save a few bucks as individuals, the run on impact is that it can put retailers out of business and people out of work...

The costs and risks associated with running a retail business are much trickier than we might think...after paying for salaries/wages (a defined minimum), mandatory super, insurance, store space and of course inventory (along with a whole host of other expenses), the "profit" line can get pretty thin...

Additionally the fluctuation of the AUD$ can have a dramatic impact...for instance, the current exchange rate AUD$ to USD$ is now .7961...that is a 10% slide in just a few days...What a drag to be on the wrong side of that move with a container load of telescopes! (As a side note, my "real life" company is just selling the last of some inventory acquired when the exhange rate was .48!!!! (and no we did not have a currency hedge set)...but that is another painful story)

I like to have a local shop/person that I can talk with for advice and/or get after sales service from...if that means I need to pay extra for it so be it.

Lastly, I am certain that different manufactures will sell to different parts of the world at different price levels...don't ever assume that the price our retailers locally are paying for goods is anywhere near that of their US counterparts.

It would not be that unusual for a good bound for Australia to pass though an extra layer or two of "distribution" before it reaches our fair shores. A US manufacture might sell direct to a US retailer...For Australia bound goods it probably goes from the US to a "country distributor" who then takes a cut before selling to retail here...I know of some situations (not necessarily Astro Gear) were the sale goes Manufacture-Overseas Global Regional Distributor-Country Distributor-Regional Australian Distributor-Retailer...each step of the way people trying to take a cut of the profits...

We all have the freedom and the right to vote with our dollars...but before jumping on the bandwagon to accuse local retailers of being profiteers give some thought to all of the things that can impact price...

Clear Skies All!

[g__day (Matthew)]

Maybe it's just me - but I've spent over $15,000 on Astro gear so far and had strangely very mixed dealings with all stores in Sydney.

Examples:

Everyone here - absolutely brilliant on all sold gear - about $5K so far
Overseas suppliers - e.g. Shoestring Astronomy, Specialist software - about $800
Camera - Canon - probably about $3,000

Astro Optical - about $2K

+ve - first 6" newtonian I every bought, plus many eyepieces - great
+ve - got me the SS2k serial cable I wanted instantly - no sweat!
+ve - kept a credit for me for years no issue, Warren is a top bloke!
-ve - no substantive help on how to mate a C9.25 to a Atlux, really limited suggestions
-ve - no help as the Australian Sky6 distributor confirming whether it would work fully with the SS2k

Synsopysis - great on many things, lousy on others

BinTel - about $1.5K

+ve - got many eye pieces, diagonals, DSI's, motor focusers - excellent quality and price
-ve - on mounting gear, sheer labour of repeatedly telling them in wiriting what I want with as much precision and pictures as I can over and over and at times repeating it all 2-3 times before all of the guys there start listening. I know I can be trying, I know they think best price and cheapest options, but sometimes I want high end and don't want to go low end. Once or twice I have been in the store agruing and pleading with the owner to sell me something he's holding in his hands! I've literally said "I have money in my hand and I want to give it to you for what you hold in your hand" - three times before he would reluctantly serve me. I'm sure he had my best interest (in a way I can't understand) in his heart, but it bugged the heck out of me - it was surreal really! And I like the guys there!

Synopysis - Great products, knowledge, and decent prices - but sometimes you can ask questions of the older guys that make you feel like they are trying to serve a Martian

Lee Andrews - About $1.5K, eyepieces, bino's, CG5 Mount, finderscopes, dovetails, binoviewers

+ve - best prices for quality gear - hands down, great warranty service
-ve - when order go astray - wait 6 months with no shows and inadequate explanations as to where the ball was dropped

MyAstroshop - About $3.5K - CF9.25 OTA and many Vixen LVW eyepieces

+ve - only positives from Steve, great guy, great prices, great help
-ve - none

ATScope - Never managed to get anything there - but not from want of trying!

+ve - none so far, but Peter obivously knows his stuff
-ve - never seems to return my multiple calls or e-mails, strange...

Astronomy Online - About $2K, 5" MAK, low end mounts, eyepieces

+ve - great gear, very friendly and knowledgeable
-ve - prices are too high compared to eveyone else on commodity gear

* * *

So rather than blindy defend who we've got, know that like us we all have our strengths and weakenesses. Call out that sometimes they are more than 1/2 to double the retail import price plus freight charges and taxes and wonder why. I certainly don't think we are being screwed, nor is it a simple argument, but maybe they get the shaft in how international providers sell to them vs direct.

Why couldn't Warren buy Sky6 six retail for me and split the difference vs buy at a wholesaler at twice the retail price? It's beyond me, its not Warren - it's his distributor that's shafting him.

[RB (Andrew)]

Maybe it is just me after all.
I've tried to think back on a time when I've had a negative experience with any of the Aussie supplier I've dealt with over the years and I've dealt with Astro Optical, Bintel, AEC, Wildcard Innovations, ATS, York Optical so I'm not blindly defending them.
I can safely say I have met most of them personally !
Not once have I had a bad experience, not once have I said I wish I bought from OS instead.

I have on the other hand bought from OS items that I can't get here.
Mostly happy with the service although I've had to cancel my credit cards three times due to fraudulent transactions directly after the same supplier charged my CC.
That has never happened locally or with any other OS supplier.
Yes dealing over the net is perilous and I'm not blaming the supplier per sé but I can't be sure who is on the other end unless I deal over the phone.
Trying to prove to the bank that I didn't make those fraudulent transactions and waiting 12 weeks was bad enough but not knowing if I was to get my $750 back each time was worse!
I've worried about whether the items were going to be sent in good shape or whether the correct items would be sent at all.
I've had to fight with customs to release my goods on time, I've been given the runaround with orders placed and confirmation of the order received but then orders being lost and had to wait for an internal investigation.
Trying to get advice on said items after the sale was not always the easiest thing to do.

So yes I am reluctant to buy from OS, not only for the obvious reasons as stated ie. walk into a shop and see the merchandise, ask advice, easy exchange/return procedure etc etc, but because I've also had bad experiences from buying OS that I did not expect.

I don't like paying more than I have to but have also been in business and am in business myself and know from direct experience what it's like to be a small operator having to compete with the giants of the industry worldwide.
And in today's world, price is everything but something has to give in return for "cheaper" goods and usually it's advice/service and after sales care.

Like I said we have a choice and no one is forcing us to buy locally.

[Louwai (Bryan)]

Originally Posted by cydonia

Louwai, you just confessed to us that you mark up the stuff you sell by 100%...Some people would consider that outragous.

I would hate to try and have to put food on my families table by selling Astro gear in this country!

Yes that particular item I mark up 100% because it is a very low value item & even at 100% I am still providing it at far far less than others. I COULD put 700% on it & still be cheaper than others in the retail market, but I don't.

I also sell items delivered for AU$180. Those items only have 15% on them. Other higher value items even less at 10%. And I still provide the after-sales service & warranty replacements & general knowledge.



I didn't name any specific business in my original post. Neither AU or US. I was simply stating what I thought was an issue.
Just as those who have come back in defence of the local dealers have stated their position.
Some have stated the possible pitfalls of dealing internationally in defence of the local dealers. Very good & valid points. Some people can not justify spending money without the backup & service. If that's what suits them then they are required to pay the extra cost of that.

I used the Kendrick Premier Controler & heaters as an example.
If it was only $100 more expensive I would buy it in AU to save all the hassle, but when a complete package would have a cost difference of around $300 or more I can not justify the extra cost.
A CGE1400 delivered to Melbourne is $3000 cheaper when buying from the US. Again, if it was $1000 dearer to buy here, fair enough. But not $3k.

I know there is only 1 Celestron wholesaler in AU, & it's quite possible that he is the one pushing scope prices up & not the retailer.

Either way, this thread certainly got the discussion going.....