Saturn - ToUcam first (real) light! :)

[iceman (Mike)]

Well I got up this morning at 3:30am to try and image Saturn with my new ToUcam.
Seeing conditions were horrible, after a very hot (40degrees C) and windy day, but I still wanted to try it because i've only got the laptop every 2nd week.

My first few videos were throwaways, because I forgot to use my cardbord hartman mask to focus properly. When I did use it, I used the mask on Saturn itself to focus, instead of using a star like I should have. Nevertheless, focus was close enough for me this morning.

I took several videos with just the webcam attached, eventually finding the right balance of gain and other settings and captured a few decent videos worth processing. I then tried with the 2x barlow, but seeing was absolutely horrible and the resulting videos show Saturn changing shape from oval to round and back again

Without the barlow, when I managed to get the image starting from the edge of the FOV, it would stay in view for about 40 seconds worth of frames. With the barlow, it was much harder to keep it in view, and usually only managed 10-15 seconds worth of frames.

I used Bink and Smacker to join a few videos together and stack them in registax. I tried performing some wavelet processing in registax, and was able to bring out a hint of banding on the disc and a hint of Cassini Division as well, but I'd like anyone's help (please!) to process it better (in registax or PixInSight) than I manage to fumble out.

Raw stacked version 1


Registax wavelets version 1



Raw stacked version 2


Registax wavelets version 2



Raw stacked version 3


Registax wavelets version 2



The difference between the stacked versions is just how many of the frames were used when stacking. Version 1 used around 250 frames (out of 650 or so), 2 and 3 used less.


Just before I packed it away to get ready to go to work, I took the opportunity to take a few quick videos of Jupiter, it was very low on the horizon and because it was rising up and not moving across the sky like Saturn, it went out of the FOV much faster

Jupiter


Jupiter+moons (gain very high)



I couldn't get any detail from Jupiter, I've got to play with the settings some more. It's just a round blob.

Why are my images so blue? The IR filter i'm using is blue, but is it going to be possible to get rid of the blue tinge to everything?

Thanks for you advice or suggestions.

[Mick (Michael)]

Very nice Ice, they are better than my first Saturn and Jupiter photos.

[Saturn%5 (Graeme)]

Hi Mike,
Good first effort with the new camera, Im no expert on this stuff but it looks to me as if jupiter is over exposed but as i said im no expert, Im sure other will be able to give you better advice.

Keep'em coming

[iceman (Mike)]

yeh i'm not too concerned about jupiter, it was just a quick 2 minute test before I went inside and had to go to work.. it was very low on the horizon and looked red, white and blue even through the eyepiece.. I also know my settings are off, and my collimation is most certainly in need of attention.

Thanks for the comments.

[mch62 (Mark)]

Hay Ice what were your camera settings?

[iceman (Mike)]

I don't know for sure, because the stupid ToUcam settings dialogue only has the sliders, with no increment marks or values

I know I had the gain at around 10-25%, I know gamma was up near the top end, saturation was up near the top end, brightness was around middle or just below, shutter speed used was 1/25s, and I used 10 frames / second.

In the "other" settings dialogue where you set the resolution (640x480), what value am I supposed to use for that compression dropdown?

[mch62 (Mark)]

I use the program Iris for capture as I have both a digital still and web cam , but basicaly you need to have the gain as low as possible. I have it so that the image is just visiable on the screen.
It depends on your scope and focal ratios used subject and does take a bit of fidling. If you can see a dim image that appears to have some contrasty features your on the way. If it appears to bright and washed out you need to make adjustments to get it dimmer.
My gain slidder is only a few millimeters to the right.
Mark

[ving (David)]

interesting... can wait to see results from further developments

[mch62 (Mark)]

What brand of IR filter are you using.
I use a Sirius Optics NIR filter from the Us and it appears to have a slight pinkish hue to it , almost transparent.
If the conditions were bad it is going to be hard time for your first go at it , but don't loose hart and keep trying.
I am going over Saturn%25 Graemes tonight and will see what I can do with my Toucam on his GSO Dob.
ps

In the white balance settings try it on manual and adjust your image to suit .you might be able to remove that blue hue.

[iceman (Mike)]

Mark, I think it's just some generic brand IR filter that cost me AU$60 from Telescopes-Astronomy where I bought the webcam.

They had Edmund Scientific ones at twice the price, but I didn't want to spend that much.

I'll try it without the IR filter as a test, but surely there's a way to either elminate some of the blue during capture, or eliminate all of it during post-processing photoshop.

I know my gain and gamma and brightness were all too high, i'll try again with lower settings for those, and so I can just see Saturn on the screen.

The conditions were horrible this morning, but I only have the laptop every 2nd week and didn't want to waste a morning even when I knew the results would be frustrating.. it's all a learning process and i've learnt a lot today already.

If it's clear tomorrow morning hopefully i'll be more productive. I can tell i'm going to be tired at the end of the week though.. 3:30am mornings

[gbeal]

Ice,
welcome to the frustrating world of webcamming. OK, I'm no ace, but... (and bear in mind all this is from memory from the last time around)
With the likes of Jupiter or Saturn (Jupiter being brighter) I use around 1/25th second, maybe 1/30th with Jupiter.
I like the gain as low as possible, certainly about 10% or so, or zero.
Brightness I normally have about 80%. Gain about the same, maybe 75%. Saturation near the top, but play with that.
Try the auto white balance. I normally check the box, watch it change to a natural hue, and then uncheck it, leaving it unchecked.
With anything like this eyeball the image on the monitor, and get the detail visible by adjusting the brightness, and the gain, and the shutter speed. but keeping the gain as low as possible. I focus on the Cassini, or a satelite if you are lucky enough to image when there is a transit. I actually view first, and then decide if the seeing will stand my attempting to image, but at your stage get out and try it.
I actually went through a night, imaging Mars where I experimented with differing settings, and wrote down these settings and compared notes at the end of processing, perhaps you should as well.
I am sure I have or had a program that "clipped" onto the camera settings, and actually turned the sliders into recordable models, so you could duplicate these settings again. Try me off forum for this, I will have a look.
After all this I have just realised that you are probably using the dob base, and if so, man it is a good start. Keep at it.
Gary

[seeker372011 (Narayan)]

Hey Ice:

That's heaps better than any Saturn I captured already

However i have this advice from others in another form who have managed some really good pictures;

quote
I believe that the experts crank the gamma right down, then have the brightness set so that the light level meter is about half way - then the final brightness is brought out in the stacking of the images.


the toucam is touchy to settings:

1/25 exp, gain 25%, brightness 50%, saturation 95%, gamma 0% frame rate, 20fps to focus and 10fps to capture. when focusing at 20fps you need to set the exp back to 1/25 and gain to 20-25%. just click on both sliders and it will reset. this gets rid of a lot of noise. Check the auto white ballance then after 10 sec or so un check the box. this should set up the white balance good. if you leave it checked as you capture it will give you different colors through the whole. make sure the color tab in registax is checked on the imput tab.
unquote

this is very similar to gbeal's comments but anyway here it is for what its worth

[ving (David)]

my saturn pics are pretty crappy. but I havent tried with my dob yet only the 60mm.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v46/ving68/60mm/sat.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v46/ving68/60mm/Dsc03007.jpg

[iceman (Mike)]

Gary, seeker, thanks for the tips. Hopefully tomorrow morning is clear enough for me to try again with some newfound wisdom in what settings to use! Can't wait to try again now, i'll also try without the IR filter to see what the difference is.

Gary, i'll PM you to see if you can hunt down that program, sounds like it'd be pretty handy.

Ving, not bad for the 60mm. You should try it with the dob, you might be surprised what you can capture if you take enough shots to weed out the bad ones and stack the good ones in registax.

My afocal saturn shots are pretty ordinary as well, but i've seen some much better shots taken afocally, granted those were with a EQ mount and a steadypix adapter or similar, but you can still get something worth saving.

[beren]

Great going so far Ice , I dont know if theres any yahoo toucam group but i find with my LPI theres heaps of handy info these groups can offer either through there general chatter or file sections.

[iceman (Mike)]

Thanks Stuart..

I'm sure the settings will get better, but i'm always going to be let down by image scale.. f/5 is just so tiny, and with a 2x barlow it just makes things so much harder, especially with my cheap barlow which seems to double the magnification at the expense of cutting out 1/2 the light.

This morning was raining again.. 1 half-clear morning this week so far. the weather is just horrible lately

[rumples riot]

Fear not Mark, this is an area which I am about to experience the same frustrations that you are facing right now. I tried earlier in the year with the LPI that I received with the scope. Those results were quite frankly disappointing, and now I am determined to beat the LPI's limitations and have found that with a careful imaging structure to a session, result sstart to happen more frequently and each time you will get an improvement if you stick to the structure. Great attempts

Paul

[ving (David)]

Originally posted by iceman
Ving, not bad for the 60mm. You should try it with the dob, you might be surprised what you can capture if you take enough shots to weed out the bad ones and stack the good ones in registax.
.

yeah!

Cant wait

need some good weather and no visitors