Absolute novice

Ruhapi2 (Peter) · #1 18-03-2023, 04:49 PM

Hi everyone, I'd just like to introduce myself to the group and the hobby of astrophotography.

I have been interested in astronomy since I was a kid and just more recently astrophotography.

So have been watching some videos and doing some reading and looking at what's for sale, but not really knowing what I needed or even wanted. Budget was an issue so I was dreaming more than planning on purchasing a set-up. So for the past 6 or so months I would often browse the For Sale on Facebook Marketplace, Gumtree and even the Ice In Space classifieds for a reasonable priced set-up and or related equipment, in the hope of getting into the hobby sooner rather than later. The more I researched the the more distant my goal seemed, due to the costs involved, as my tastes were stearing away from basic entry level equipment to the more expensive mid-range stuff. I had all but resigned myself to doing research instead of actual ownership.

It was only just last week I had the opportunity to respond to an ad on Marketplace for RASA 8/CGX combo that I thought was a reasonable price. The equipment was a couple years old but never used, all bought during 2020 and then stored away and all still wrapped up and in their boxes (taken out the once and set up but never used).

Through a little haggling I now own...
-RASA 8
-CGX Mount
-ASIAIR PRO
-Radian Triad Ultra Narrowband Filter 2"

I am now just looking at what else I need just to get to use my new equipment. OMG!

I guess a suitable camera will be the first thing I need and then just the basics to get it to the stage I can actually take it all outside.
I see the ASIAIR PRO needs a power source as it doesn't actually come with one, this puzzled me for starters.

Then there's polar alignment, as there seems a few ways to do this.

I'm in Queensland so wondering if I need a dew heater and dew shield?

I hear other people say you can get away without auto-guiding with f2 scopes so this might save me some money if it's true.

Happy to take on any advice people have as it's all new to me and a bit overwhelming at this stage.

Cheers
Pete

ahmed_haider (Ahmed) · #2 18-03-2023, 08:02 PM

Wow that is some premium equipment my friend! All the best to you!
You probably know of chucks astrophotography on YouTube, he has a setup like this one.
https://youtube.com/@ChucksAstrophotography
I think he uses a ZWO ASI533mc pro camera with this setup. Of course he is very experienced and his processing skills are second to none so don't go comparing your images to his

If you're going to go for the asi air then polar alignment shouldn't be a problem. Otherwise you can use sharpcap (pro version) and just connect your camera and mount to a laptop and get started with polar alignment, image acquisition plus stacking and even plate solving is a breeze if you connect your mount using ascom/eqmod
I'm only a beginner myself but I can guide you as much as I know.......which is very little admittedly

ahmed_haider (Ahmed) · #3 18-03-2023, 08:10 PM

Also Lukomatico in YouTube has the same sort of equipment and his content is excellent for beginners and advanced astrophotography enthusiasts alike
https://youtube.com/@lukomatico
Cheers
Ahmed

xelasnave · #4 18-03-2023, 10:08 PM

Hi Peter and welcome.

I have a RASA 11. ( and three other rigs)

Now not saying you can't do narrow band but it is a pain with a RASA changing filters and they get dirty.

You really need a dew shield and having a dew heater is a good idea...the dew shield makes changing filters a real drag but in my view you must have one.
Make something rather than shell out $75 for a Celestron unit.

In the end I replaced my mono set up with One Shot Colour and much happier now...part of this is due to running a Asiair plus...and it would be a shame to have everything automated but still having to change filters manually...I have three other scopes that I run narrow band with Asiair plus units and filter wheels etc ...sweet stuff.

For starters I would go for one shot colour but everyone's situation is different so just think about having to change filters long and hard which will Influence camera choice..either a two 2600 mm or a two 2600 mc...I love em...got three plus ZWO 1600 mono.

Don't worry about auto guiding for now if it causes too much stress financially..in fact I personally think it is a good idea to start without auto guide so as to better understand your mount and get it guiding at its best before you add auto guide. ...the Asiar plus will make getting polar alignment very easy and given the RASA is very fast you will be surprised what even 10 second subs will do..but getting 30 will still be easy ( maybe longer with your mount but find out from trial and error)...one of my best images was of m42 using only 10 second subs..plenty of nebulosity..and really I find going shorter subs beats poor seeing ..my reason for getting the RASA was to go as short as possible to get sharper images...look into " lucky imaging"... the idea seems to work.

You may have trouble getting back focus but don't freak out and remember these things are not always plug and play...and sent to build your character...

But you have a great astrograph and mount...two 2600 is the camera to get .

Alex

xelasnave · #5 18-03-2023, 10:26 PM

And do yourself a big favour..get a zwo EAF..( auto focuser controlled by Asiair plus,....it is worth its weight in gold..focusing is a huge issue particularly starting out and the EAF side steps all that..great thing to have...certainly before auto guides if you are ranking things.

Alex

oska (John) · #6 19-03-2023, 08:20 AM

Dew heater is a must. Sometimes the dew starts before astro dark.

Ruhapi2 (Peter) · #7 19-03-2023, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahmed_haider

Wow that is some premium equipment my friend! All the best to you!
You probably know of chucks astrophotography on YouTube, he has a setup like this one.
https://youtube.com/@ChucksAstrophotography
I think he uses a ZWO ASI533mc pro camera with this setup. Of course he is very experienced and his processing skills are second to none so don't go comparing your images to his

If you're going to go for the asi air then polar alignment shouldn't be a problem. Otherwise you can use sharpcap (pro version) and just connect your camera and mount to a laptop and get started with polar alignment, image acquisition plus stacking and even plate solving is a breeze if you connect your mount using ascom/eqmod
I'm only a beginner myself but I can guide you as much as I know.......which is very little admittedly

Thanks Ahmed, yep straight into decent equipment. I hadn't planned that.
Will take a look at Chucks video's a bit more.

Cheers
Pete

Ruhapi2 (Peter) · #8 19-03-2023, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oska

Dew heater is a must. Sometimes the dew starts before astro dark.

Okay cool thanks John

Ruhapi2 (Peter) · #9 19-03-2023, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xelasnave

And do yourself a big favour..get a zwo EAF..( auto focuser controlled by Asiair plus,....it is worth its weight in gold..focusing is a huge issue particularly starting out and the EAF side steps all that..great thing to have...certainly before auto guides if you are ranking things.

Alex

Thanks Alex, will definitely look into the EAF

Ruhapi2 (Peter) · #10 19-03-2023, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xelasnave

Hi Peter and welcome.

I have a RASA 11. ( and three other rigs)

Now not saying you can't do narrow band but it is a pain with a RASA changing filters and they get dirty.

You really need a dew shield and having a dew heater is a good idea...the dew shield makes changing filters a real drag but in my view you must have one.
Make something rather than shell out $75 for a Celestron unit.

In the end I replaced my mono set up with One Shot Colour and much happier now...part of this is due to running a Asiair plus...and it would be a shame to have everything automated but still having to change filters manually...I have three other scopes that I run narrow band with Asiair plus units and filter wheels etc ...sweet stuff.

For starters I would go for one shot colour but everyone's situation is different so just think about having to change filters long and hard which will Influence camera choice..either a two 2600 mm or a two 2600 mc...I love em...got three plus ZWO 1600 mono.

Don't worry about auto guiding for now if it causes too much stress financially..in fact I personally think it is a good idea to start without auto guide so as to better understand your mount and get it guiding at its best before you add auto guide. ...the Asiar plus will make getting polar alignment very easy and given the RASA is very fast you will be surprised what even 10 second subs will do..but getting 30 will still be easy ( maybe longer with your mount but find out from trial and error)...one of my best images was of m42 using only 10 second subs..plenty of nebulosity..and really I find going shorter subs beats poor seeing ..my reason for getting the RASA was to go as short as possible to get sharper images...look into " lucky imaging"... the idea seems to work.

You may have trouble getting back focus but don't freak out and remember these things are not always plug and play...and sent to build your character...

But you have a great astrograph and mount...two 2600 is the camera to get .

Alex

Thanks Alex, I will include dew heater and look at making my own dew shield (do you have a material source that may be suitable?) always happy to save a buck.
The 2600 is probably a bit out of my price range for now, and ideally I'll try and get a second hand camera from here.
All good advice and will definitely hit you up for knowledge in the future if that's okay?

cheers
Pete

xelasnave · #11 19-03-2023, 11:39 AM

First the dew shield...go to Office Works and look at the stuff they have..you may need to stick two sheets of their thick black cardboard together to make it all the way around the tube ( not too thick as you need to bend it without a fight)..I have just bought a pile of excellent black cardboard from Office Works and plan making a baffled dew tube for the new eight inch rig...( A lot of work but just look at the Hubble Space telescope and what they do beyond the secondary mirror on the inside of the tube then think as to why they would do that..you can bet there was a committee behind that..it did not get there because it looks neat)...
Make it fit well and just use blue tack to hold it in place...you can add mouse mat material which allows easy removal as well...blue tack is very handy while you are working out cabling...do not try to go permanent with cables first up ..(and when your camera plays up it most likely will want a very expensive USB cable..almost a necessity..well it is really..and with blue tack you move things around adjusting after having seen what happens during a session...it also helps a little if cables snag by letting go before real damage occurs..even with Asiair plus be there until you have been present a few sessions.

With the dew tube being cardboard paint it to protect it from dew... baffled or not and on the inside liberally apply black paint and while that is wet sprinkle saw dust ..allow that coat to dry completely and apply another coat of flat black paint...the idea of the saw dust is to reduce reflection..Celestron have a dew heater ring which is a good idea as you can use it to mount your cable routing thingy...look into that or ask if you need...the cable must follow a particular path across the corrector plate.

As to camera ..forget the money and work out what is best..dont make excuses just accept that is what you must do....compromise just brings all your gear to the level of the lowest unit...go to Bintel Web site and play around with their calculator that matches cameras to scopes and tells you if the combination is over or under sampled... it also shows the framing on familar objects which I think will be helpful for you.

In any event get the best camera you can and the one that is appropriate to your scope....using a price range as your criteria is asking for disappointment...you may have to wait more months but just remember a "less than" camera brings everything down...and finally you go buy the one you should have bought day one.
If the camera you should get is out of the question perhaps get a cheaper uncooled mono camera that eventually you can use as a guide camera... AND when you can buy the best camera for your rig.

Alex

xelasnave · #12 19-03-2023, 11:59 AM

Here you go...

https://www.bintel.com.au/tools/astronomy-calculator/

Ruhapi2 (Peter) · #13 19-03-2023, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xelasnave

First the dew shield...go to Office Works and look at the stuff they have..you may need to stick two sheets of their thick black cardboard together to make it all the way around the tube ( not too thick as you need to bend it without a fight)..I have just bought a pile of excellent black cardboard from Office Works and plan making a baffled dew tube for the new eight inch rig...( A lot of work but just look at the Hubble Space telescope and what they do beyond the secondary mirror on the inside of the tube then think as to why they would do that..you can bet there was a committee behind that..it did not get there because it looks neat)...
Make it fit well and just use blue tack to hold it in place...you can add mouse mat material which allows easy removal as well...blue tack is very handy while you are working out cabling...do not try to go permanent with cables first up ..(and when your camera plays up it most likely will want a very expensive USB cable..almost a necessity..well it is really..and with blue tack you move things around adjusting after having seen what happens during a session...it also helps a little if cables snag by letting go before real damage occurs..even with Asiair plus be there until you have been present a few sessions.

With the dew tube being cardboard paint it to protect it from dew... baffled or not and on the inside liberally apply black paint and while that is wet sprinkle saw dust ..allow that coat to dry completely and apply another coat of flat black paint...the idea of the saw dust is to reduce reflection..Celestron have a dew heater ring which is a good idea as you can use it to mount your cable routing thingy...look into that or ask if you need...the cable must follow a particular path across the corrector plate.

As to camera ..forget the money and work out what is best..dont make excuses just accept that is what you must do....compromise just brings all your gear to the level of the lowest unit...go to Bintel Web site and play around with their calculator that matches cameras to scopes and tells you if the combination is over or under sampled... it also shows the framing on familar objects which I think will be helpful for you.

In any event get the best camera you can and the one that is appropriate to your scope....using a price range as your criteria is asking for disappointment...you may have to wait more months but just remember a "less than" camera brings everything down...and finally you go buy the one you should have bought day one.
If the camera you should get is out of the question perhaps get a cheaper uncooled mono camera that eventually you can use as a guide camera... AND when you can buy the best camera for your rig.

Alex

All worthy info thanks Alex. I appreciate the feedback and seasoned knowledge. Will look into the DIY dew shield. I'll definitely look at the ASI2600 and compare it against the camera I was considering buying - ASI183MC Pro. Thanks for the link to the Bintel calculator, which will help even more.
cheers
Pete

xelasnave · #14 19-03-2023, 03:10 PM

Great camera for your scope it would seem

It will be interesting to see if anyone offers other camera advice...

Anyways it is easy, over the years to end up with many rigs...some folk change/sell whereas I cant part with the them so I now have four rigs...and at the moment none of them work

Dont forget the EAF...turns an amatur into a professional...in the old days you could spend up to an hour trying to get great focus..Asiair changes that and if the temp changes it refocused..thats what you want...
Good luck.
Alex

Ruhapi2 (Peter) · #15 19-03-2023, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xelasnave

Great camera for your scope it would seem

It will be interesting to see if anyone offers other camera advice...

Anyways it is easy, over the years to end up with many rigs...some folk change/sell whereas I cant part with the them so I now have four rigs...and at the moment none of them work

Dont forget the EAF...turns an amatur into a professional...in the old days you could spend up to an hour trying to get great focus..Asiair changes that and if the temp changes it refocused..thats what you want...
Good luck.
Alex

Yes it would seem so after checking on the Bintel calculator. I see a couple Youtube channels also recommending the ASI183 as a good match for the RASA 8.
The 183 has a smaller sensor size and also smaller pixel size @2.4µm, so smaller stars maybe and more detail? But as a trade-off for less field of view due to the smaller sensor.

Yes the ZWO EAF is definitely on the list

Thanks again Alex
Pete