Car Health Monitors.

[xelasnave]

Can anyone advise if getting one could be helpful in diagnosing a problem that will never manifest when the car goes in to have what is wrong fixed..it splutters for no apparent reason and both the fuel system and electrics checked but no flaws found..even replaced fuel pump and filter, next maybe injectors..however I am thinking one of those devices if they work like I would like them to work should enable one to look at the app on your Mobil when it is sputtering and it tells you what is wrong.
However I don't want to buy another gimmick that just sits in a draw..what should I expect and maybe suggestions as to which one to buy.
Alex

[xa-coupe (Jeff)]

If you have an android device, you can buy a bluetooth ELM327 device for $15 up, download an app and that can do everything you could want .... but... I've had a couple and one worked like a champ and the other one ($7 delivered to be fair) never paired.

[Wilsil (Wilco)]

Petrol or diesel?
Might be dirty injectors if it's a diesel.
Might be ignition coil/spark plugs if it's a petrol.

[Rainmaker (Matt)]

I had such an issue with my daughter's Honda CRV, it went for a standard service and ran beautifully before and at the mechanics workshop after but had issues when driven on the road. Turned out to be a cracked insulator on one of the brand new sparkplugs......

He tried injector clean, swapping coils etc..... eventually I pulled the new plugs out at home and saw a faint crack on one..... problem solved for $16

[Top_oz (Tim)]

I've been out of the car scene for a while....it now looks like diagnostic tools are really cheap!

It could be very helpful (assuming the device itself was not a complete dud). The main question is whether or not you know enough to correctly diagnose what's happening based on the info it's providing?

I reckon they're cheap enough that it's worth taking a punt.

[RyanJones]

Hi Alex,

Live diagnostics are fine if you know how to interpret the information they’re giving you. Secondly, most of the cheaper diagnostic tools don’t have very fast refresh rates so they will quite often miss the exact moment of failure that you’re looking for. Even very expensive factory tools that we use don’t have fast enough refresh rates to catch some intermittent splutters. Also bare in mind that modern control systems are very good at making bad engines run well because they respond so fast to changes. Sometimes they incorrectly compensate and this can actually be the cause of the splutter but not the cause of the fault. If your mechanic can replicate the fault, usually someone with a decent amount of experience should be able to hear/feel at least the area in which they should be looking for the fault then check and eliminate causes as they go.

Hope that helps

Ryan

[JA]

Originally Posted by Wilsil

Petrol or diesel?
Might be dirty injectors if it's a diesel.
Might be ignition coil/spark plugs if it's a petrol.

100% on those Wilco.
For the symptoms stated I would only add to check for a dirty or defective MAF (Mass Air Flow)sensor or for that matter esp, in diesels, a dirty/gummed up EGR valve/system.

Out of interest and on the subject of faulty coil packs I've had one or two clearly identified on both an expensive and as well as an in-expensive ELM type wireless diagnostic tool.

Best
JA

[Nikolas (Nik)]

I was thinking coils as well, my car had an intermittent sputter and it was a faulty coil

[mura_gadi (Steve)]

Keep a log - weather etc, I had a car that played up after rain, turned out that Holden tried a ceramic dizzy cap for a while and if the humidity was high it played up a lot. So record the humidity, temp, time since the last turn over etc. Whether its only when you've gone low on fuel recently, you could have grim in the tank if its an old car etc.

[Sunfish (Ray)]

****ty fuel. Change where you buy fuel .

Originally Posted by xelasnave

Can anyone advise if getting one could be helpful in diagnosing a problem that will never manifest when the car goes in to have what is wrong fixed..it splutters for no apparent reason and both the fuel system and electrics checked but no flaws found..even replaced fuel pump and filter, next maybe injectors..however I am thinking one of those devices if they work like I would like them to work should enable one to look at the app on your Mobil when it is sputtering and it tells you what is wrong.
However I don't want to buy another gimmick that just sits in a draw..what should I expect and maybe suggestions as to which one to buy.
Alex

[JA]

Yes spot on Ray, that too, often as water in fuel. This can definitively be detected visually (if there's enough of it) by inspecting inside the fuel tank, which in most modern vehicles is accessible via the fuel pump access cover on the tank. Or possibly carefully detach the fuel line and pump in to a container and inspect.

Best
JA

[xelasnave]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions re the fault...I am not unfamiliar with making motors run but I have followed up every possibility I feel...although have not changed injectors, petrol by the way Xtrail, have run cleaning stuff in fuel for before the problem, ensured all leads do not contact surfaces etc etc...I buy my fuel (Hyundai) where this car gets its fuel and I have no problems and fuel for each car is purchased on the same day..A log yes...just when you think it's the heat the problem appears in the morning..up a hill yes electrical but then we get it on the flat...spark plugs yes a new set...and all this is why I am turning to a device the subject of the thread...I will get one..pay my money and take my chances..I have an Xtrail for around here and I am very pleased with it but the problem vehicle belongs to my X and obviously she is very important to me so I really want to fix her car..I tried to give her mine but she likes her car and the colour so it is the one I need to fix.
It reminds me of a story of a guy with similar problems which turned out to be a plastic bag in the fuel tank...The chances of that happening??? But given the times I have now referenced that story in discussing this car I feel that it may be irony playing one of its cruel tricks...anyways one thing is for sure is that everything that can be replaced is getting replaced..she likes the car and does not want a new one...so.
Thanks everyone.
Alex

[Boozlefoot]

NRMA towies love X-Trails! Very common sporadic/hiding fault is the Crank Angle Sensor. (Also same sensor is used for cam angle on some later models) Car has fault, 10 mins later, sputters again. Usually when warming up, sometimes ceases altogether when full op temp. Goes ok for weeks, the problem returns for a while destroying any confidence in a longer trip. Arrives at mechanical workshop and behaves beautifully. No OBD message evident.

$20-$25 each and one bolt and one electrical deutsch type connection, just need tiny hands to access sometimes.

Very common problem, particularly X Trails.

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by Boozlefoot

NRMA towies love X-Trails! Very common sporadic/hiding fault is the Crank Angle Sensor. (Also same sensor is used for cam angle on some later models) Car has fault, 10 mins later, sputters again. Usually when warming up, sometimes ceases altogether when full op temp. Goes ok for weeks, the problem returns for a while destroying any confidence in a longer trip. Arrives at mechanical workshop and behaves beautifully. No OBD message evident.

$20-$25 each and one bolt and one electrical deutsch type connection, just need tiny hands to access sometimes.

Very common problem, particularly X Trails.

Thank you Rod I am sure you are on the money...

The Xtrail I have came from a friend and he had to replace both sensors...this came up over 10 weeks ago ..I told her and she told the mechanic...I thought these were replaced but just now I have found out he thought they were ok and did not replace them...now I knew about "sensors" but had not heard " crank" or " cam" in the same breath so I rang her saying the crank sensor and cam sensor and she said they have been looked at remember..oh those are the same???...anyways realising that they are all the same and in fact were not replaced I suggested she buy them and have a go at installing them..at least have my daughter have a go..who incidently did work experience at the mechanics shop..she has tiny fingers so hopefully she will can do it..not worried about saving money but I think it would be great for her confidence to be able to boast that she fixed it...thank you so much..without your post I would never have found out the mechanic did not do what I asked months ago....

It's the old story if you want something done you need to do it yourself...

Merry Christmas may the universe reward you ten fold my appreciation.

Alex

[Lookingout (Bob)]

During the night run the motor lift the bonet and look for any sparks jumping from the leads or plugs. Just my be.

[JA]

Originally Posted by Lookingout

During the night run the motor lift the bonet and look for any sparks jumping from the leads or plugs. Just my be.

I must remember that one. What an excellent idea for all those gummed up/wet electrical leak paths.

And Alex on On Boozlefoot's suggestion of the possibility of the crank position sensor, definitely one to consider, in fact any part of the system that has to do with the ignition timing: Crank Position Sensor, Engine Management Computer, power, cabling and connection to these devices as well. We once had a faulty Crank position sensor in a long in the tooth Merc ML320 which would play up not on start up, but after some time driving and would return to normal after a period of rest with the engine off. I figured it might have something to do with temperature and as a stop gap on the side of the road when it was playing up badly, poured some water over the outer body of the sensor (the connector is "waterproof-ish) and found it returned to normal. And yes it too was a tight fit right at the engine/transmission interface for sensing the crank position. Definitely check it out

Best
JA

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by Lookingout

During the night run the motor lift the bonet and look for any sparks jumping from the leads or plugs. Just my be.

My first thing was that...the very first thing actually because I had similar on another car I owned ( and owning batteries one is always surprised how electricity finds a path)...plus making sure that all leads were separated from particularly metal surfaces ..replaced leads eventually as well...the characterists seems like electrical shorting and examining the colour of the exhaust showed it was probably not fuel..but of course you dont know..each can manifest similar..it showed a propensity to occur when hot which can be a short but also could mean fuel vaporising...another thing it could have been the petrol tank cap.. it was functional but that was another possibility I looked at...I think I covered everything that is why I became interested in electronic diagnosis...I once raced moto cross bikes and as a result became pretty handy as a mechanic and trouble shooter given that I was a one man race team.
I don't think we changed the coil and I know we have not changed the injectors but my money is on the sensors given my mates experience and the elimination of all posibilities save coil and injectors...each of which you could think would show pretty well all the time.
I hope to report in the future on my device purchase and my daughter's successfully repair...did the rear struts last week so it is becoming a new car...front bearing have been done..you say something and I bet I can say..yes done that.
Alex

[xelasnave]

Originally Posted by JA

I must remember that one. What an excellent idea for all those gummed up/wet electrical leak paths.

And Alex on On Boozlefoot's suggestion of the possibility of the crank position sensor, definitely one to consider, in fact any part of the system that has to do with the ignition timing: Crank Position Sensor, Engine Management Computer, power, cabling and connection to these devices as well. We once had a faulty Crank position sensor in a long in the tooth Merc ML320 which would play up not on start up, but after some time driving and would return to normal after a period of rest with the engine off. I figured it might have something to do with temperature and as a stop gap on the side of the road when it was playing up badly, poured some water over the outer body of the sensor (the connector is "waterproof-ish) and found it returned to normal. And yes it too was a tight fit right at the engine/transmission interface for sensing the crank position. Definitely check it out

Best
JA

I am confident it will be the sensors..the mechanic should have replaced them..but my instruction are relayed by my X ... I wrongly assume he does what I say..in the future I will watch more carefully..but one of the reasons I have an X is she did not like the way I controlled the world around me...it's true..so I try not to appear to be even here..bite my lip..say nothing..do it your way even though I am expert and can show you how the welder works...I know how I come across and how people don't like it..and I don't want to make her, or anyone really, unhappy.
I just wish folk could accept I actually know stuff that they don't know and I only want to help....you should see my spider..moved onto the curtain and pulled a fold over herself like it was a blanket..she is just so adorable.
Alex

[GrahamL]

Hope it works out well Alex.. I have a friend whos convinced his 98 prados (V6petrol ) trans is shot car runs fine and then breaks down a little under load both of us used the same mechanic for many years and who was a good guy and always tried to save you dollars,,in my case same car plugs and dicky leads let me down he hasnt changed the above in over 120000.


I do think its important to follow up the communication part in regard to what should be done repair wise as well as what needs to be done.

[The_bluester (Paul)]

The diagnostic trick of lifting the bonnet at night is becoming a lot less useful. Not many cars built less than ten years or so ago have any bits of the ignition system where arcing is likely if insulation has broken down somewhere you can actually see them!

Regards crank angle sensors, there was actually a recall on a number of Nissans some years back for failing CAS. The usual symptom was a car that runs perfectly but just now and again it simply dies, crank it over and it restarts and off you go. After a bit of time it would not restart straight away, but if you let it cool off it will fire up again and run normally. The times when it misbehave would slowly get closer and closer together.

It never usually threw a diagnostic code either, or if it did it was for airflow meter rather than crank angle sensor, or both at the same time. There were often warnings in the manuals that CAS and AFM/MAF codes will commonly appear together.