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Old 05-01-2007, 03:41 PM
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rogerg (Roger)
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Comments about retailers

In the relatively short time I've been on Ice In Space I've seen many threads appear and disappear regarding positive and negative experience with retailers.

I suspect Ice In Space would not be keen to fuel discussion of retailers either negative or positive, however, I wonder if providing a more standardised area for such comments would benefit all.

Some scattering thoughts....

Perhaps a list of moderator maintained retailers is created. Then perhaps users are given permission to post a message about that retailer (or several). Perhaps that message would not be a standard forum message but something more standardised such as an area for free text but also rating/multiple choice type options, so that some basic facts are always established such as:
- how long the dealings with the retailer have been going with regard to the said comments (specification of number of days)
- contact methods used (selection of phone, email, etc)
- number of previous good dealings with the retailer
- number of previous bad dealings with the reatiler
- multi-choice style ranking of various things such as promptness, friendlyness, opinnion of pricing.

If users could give feedback on retailers it would be important to provide statistics on overall # reviews of the retailer, as some are obviously low volume and others high volume, you don't want one disadvantaged. But then there's that whole reason Ice In Space probably wants to steer clear of it.... potentially disadvantaging a retailer or facilitating an unfair bias.

I guess I get a little tired of the threads about the retailers because they tend to go around in circles, there are always people that like them and always people that don't like them, and so reading back on the threads it would be very hard for a newbie to get any idea from the thread if the retailer is actually good or not, where as perhaps a standardised questionnaire with resulting general statistics might be useful.

Hard to say.

As a reader of the threads I'm often tempted to reply to pledge my support or dislike for the mentioned retailer, thinking that people who read current thread B might not have read thread A 6 months earlier where I did put my opinion forward. However I don't like fuelling the threads. If I knew my opinion was always included in statistics of retailers though, I'd put it in there once and forget about it, perhaps only to update it later if my opinion changes..

As I said at first, probably something that Ice In Space would rather not delve in to, for many reasons.

One thing useful that would come out of it, is a comprehensive list of retailers so that any new person to the hobby could, even without any ratings or comments, instantly know 3+ retailers they could call to compare for themselves.

I guess that's perhaps the point... it's not so much wanting to prevent normal forum discussion about retailers, but to provide a useful resource of them, where a scattering of forum threads of 5 years each with 20 replies isn't particularly useful to a new visitor.

All said and done, I'm quite happy to just continue as is
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  #2  
Old 05-01-2007, 04:13 PM
beren
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Roger interesting post it would be good to have a resource devoted to Dealer experience although I think like you said the managers of the site would be reluctant to display it in the public domain. Often thought how mediums like this effect the Dealer landscape, noticed on the Perths scope shop BTOW maybe a hint of this { had a chuckle with "technical backup and after sales service" }
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  #3  
Old 05-01-2007, 07:01 PM
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xelasnave
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Everyone has good days and bad days, however even the most serious vendor offence against a customer I have seen here would not deter me from that vendor.It is clear they all are honest and service can vary for all sorts of reasons..reasons that may be irrelevant on the day a decision is to be made.. if a newcomer wants to know where to buy something why not have them ask the troop here... great excuse for a chat and a story or two... Although the idea has merit and is in essence a good idea it could corrupt into almost a criminal record approach.. good things (ideas) corrupt worse than bad things so they say so the better the idea the more fear of absolute corruption.
Also how could such a system manage staff changes something of particular and timely relevance to determining a altering a rating system.
I think we need a committee to look into this further .
alex
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Old 05-01-2007, 07:34 PM
Shawn
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You have a very strong piont Alex, after reading a couple of recent threads. Ive had suppliers provide flawlesly for years , and then screw up three in a row.
And then perform flawlesly for two more. Occasionally your staff let you down...

I think a bit of moderation is in order..

S
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  #5  
Old 05-01-2007, 09:29 PM
Dennis
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In fairness to the Retailer, you would somehow have to normalise the consumer responses to minimise unfair beat ups on good dealers, where the consumers expectations may have been unrealistic. As consumers, we all want quality products, at a low cost, delivered (almost) instantly along with a full technical back up if we have questions, problems or it doesn’t work out of the box.

I’ve never been in business for myself, but I strongly suspect that keeping a comprehensive inventory, providing up to date staff training, holding a wide range of spares, providing responsive technical support, administration, etc are large overheads in terms of dollars, space, time and people. If we as consumers want the best item, in-stock at the lowest price with a quick delivery and responsive support, then there is a cost involved.

At times I have been “let down” by dealers and I have found it quite easy to justify my feelings of indignation or outrage, even desiring to berate these dealers, in public. However, I try to wait 24 hours, cool off and with a little self reflection, my part in the “failed” transaction often becomes clearer and I am less inclined to blow up at the dealer.
  • I wanted the lowest price, so I did not go to my local dealer who had it in stock; I ordered it via the internet.
  • I thought I had left sufficient time for a delivery – but maybe this was unrealistic.
  • The internet dealer may be a 1 or 2 person operation which is more vulnerable to sickness, busy periods, etc.
  • I make mistakes, probably daily and look for understanding, so shouldn’t I extend this courtesy to others as well?
  • For me, astronomy is a hobby, something I do to relax. For the dealer, it is their livelihood, puts a roof over their head and feeds the family - quite different perspectives.
There are two sides to every story and it is sometimes very difficult for the dealer to get a fair hearing if consumer feedback is not somehow normalised.

Cheers

Dennis
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  #6  
Old 05-01-2007, 10:01 PM
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h0ughy (David)
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Naa keep out of the politics of retailing, fraught with dangers and retribution. Word of mouth is the best sales advice for any business, service, support, price and availability they all play a part. Go with your gut! LOL I do
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  #7  
Old 06-01-2007, 01:36 PM
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Harb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h0ughy View Post
Naa keep out of the politics of retailing, fraught with dangers and retribution. Word of mouth is the best sales advice for any business, service, support, price and availability they all play a part. Go with your gut! LOL I do
Totally agree,
I treat everyone as they treat me............
I know shops just like people have their bad days, so as long as things work out in the end , I am always happy
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  #8  
Old 06-01-2007, 04:18 PM
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xelasnave
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From the inside of a business it seems to go this way..you build it up and outshine your opposition to find that work starts pouring in, more work less time, things take off and management problems kick in, staff being only one, you start at 5 am and leave at 10 pm but still not enough time.. Stats tell us that if a business expandes at over 30% per annum it is doomed for failure so its a fine line.. but when dealing with people look for the personal thing.. so even if things are going wrong for them they stand by you..and you should stand by them also.
alex
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  #9  
Old 08-01-2007, 09:20 AM
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Kal (Andrew)
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I've seen Australias largest online forum (OCAU - Overclockers Australia) which has over 80K members shut down for a couple of months because of a vendor verdict that the vendor took to court. There is too much of a risk of libel to allow vendor verdicts unfortunately.
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  #10  
Old 08-01-2007, 09:33 AM
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iceman (Mike)
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Sorry forgot that I hadn't replied to this.

Roger, whilst I appreciate your idea, as others have pointed out, it's not in IceInSpace's interest to promote this sort of system about retailer comments/feedback.

We all want a place to be able to talk about our experiences with vendors - both good and bad. Sometimes it's to vent, sometimes to warn others, sometimes to encourage others (where your experience was a good one).

The TOS does allow for talk about vendors - but it warns that you should be specific in your experiences, and avoid generalisations such as "don't buy from these guys, they're dodgy" etc.

Vendors very rarely get to post a "right of reply" when something bad is said about them, so that's why IIS has to be careful about what we allow the members to say about vendors. Vendors will rightly want to protect their reputation and protect their business - that could mean threatening to take action against the original poster, or against IIS.

Noone wants to see "he-said/she-said" arguments between vendors and buyers on the site. It's not good for anyone.

In a lot of cases, it's miscommunication (or lack of communication) that gets people upset. For example, people complaining that they ordered something online and didn't receive it, or didn't receive any confirmation, etc. The best solution is always pick up the phone and talk to them. Most problems can be sorted out very easily without having negative comments posted on IIS.

There is a list of vendors on the IceInSpace Links page (Equipment & Where to Buy), however I know it's not completely up-to-date and doesn't contain the full list of Aussie retailers. I'm happy to update it if someone sends me a list?

Thanks for your thoughts Roger.
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  #11  
Old 08-01-2007, 11:56 AM
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merlin8r
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Yeah Mike, I can see at least ONE retailer that is missing from the list

Clear skies mate, not long now!! Sure hope the weather clears up.
Shane
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