Gravitational wave discoverer pushes for advanced detector in Australia

[gary]

Marcus Strom, in the Sydney Morning Herald today, reports that
Professor David Reitze, whose team announced the discovery of
gravitational waves last year, is currently in Australia and is
lobbying the government to consider Australia building an advanced
gravitational wave detector here.

Reitze is rumoured to be in the running for this year's Nobel Prize in Physics.

Originally Posted by Marcus Strom, SMH

"By probing the strong field regime using gravitational waves, we might see hints that general relativity isn't quite right and this will point a way towards a more fundamental understanding of gravity," he said.

This could help unite our theories of gravity with electromagnetic and nuclear forces and ultimately with quantum mechanics.

There are also technological spin-offs in terms of metrology and optics.

"The CSIRO broke world records in optical flatness with the mirrors it produced for us," Professor Reitze said, adding that LIGO requires the most stable lasers in the world, which will have use far beyond astronomy.

Originally Posted by Marcus Strom, SMH

It won't be cheap. LIGO has cost US taxpayers more than one billion dollars over 40 years.

In the last round of Australian Research Council funding, a consortium led by Swinburne University was successful in gaining $31.3 million in federal funding to establish OzGrav – a centre of excellence for gravitational wave discovery.

The director of OzGrav, Professor Matthew Bailes, said: "There are geometric reasons why it makes sense to have a detector in the southern hemisphere."

Professor David McClelland at the Australian National University was the Australian spokesperson for the LIGO discovery last year. He is working on the quantum squeezing of light that should help optimise gravitational wave detection.

He said: "Preliminary studies show that Australia is the best place to build the first [next generation] facility. [Given the cost] that would prove difficult, but we are talking about a facility which is some 12 to 15 years in the future."

Professor Reitze said: "I'm having some discussions with some government officials to try to assess the interest and budgets."

Article here :-
http://www.smh.com.au/technology/sci...12-gvj8hl.html

[xelasnave]

I don't understand the benefit of researching gravity waves.
I don't see it as any more than yet another project to prove GR as being correct similar to Gravity B probe set up to prove frame dragging.
Sure scientists and construction workers get jobs but surely we must have priorities more pressing.
I think India is getting a facility.
Research relating to GR has been done to death and yet we need more confirmation that GR is the best model.
It is the best model and anyone who presents an alternative will not, due to funding denial, will not move past a hypothesis and being cast out to be labled as a rat bag.

How about medical research into cancer, just one example.

How about research into better energy?

I would welcome any member putting me straight here...please suggest the benefits to the community even a benefit that relates to understanding our universe better.

I see no benefit in observing two black holes merge ...particularly when we have computer models that presumably show us what we expect to find.

What am I missing?

Alex

[sn1987a (Barry)]

The same reason I spent gazillions on 4 big dobs instead of donating it to cancer research I guess

[astroron (Ron)]

I am in agreement with a lot of what you say there Alex.
I also could be said of the push to put humans on Mars.
If one believes that "artificial intelligence" is the way of the future
Why would we need humans to go to Mars when robots will do the job just as well and probably at a quarter of the cost.
My answer is, pure and simple Ego.
Cheers

[sn1987a (Barry)]

The private sector is throwing billions at cancer, billions at Mars, billions at artificial intelligence. A few tens of millions over decades to push to the limits of our brightest and best is a worthwhile investment who knows what they'll discover and anyway they've never failed to deliver in the past.

By the way I'm sure pushing measurement technology below poofteenth of a proton levels must have some commercial potential down the line not to mention the computer analysis, stimulating young genius minds and heaps of other stuff I can't think of.

[sjastro]

Further GW detectors are necessary in order to pin point the location of the source.
The coordinates of the two GW discoveries made by the Hanford and Livingston detectors remain unknown.

I could not disagree anymore with this being a waste of money.
We are in the first stage in the new frontier of GW astronomy.

The electromagnetic spectrum has its limitations, namely we can't observe beyond the cosmic radiation background which is opaque across the entire spectrum.
GW astronomy will allow us to penetrate this barrier and take us back to a period just after the Big Bang.
Unfortunately due to Mr Heisenberg the actual event will remain beyond us.

The direct observation of Black Holes is another possibly as the event horizon is only a barrier in the electromagnetic spectrum.

Steven

[xelasnave]

Hi Ron its nice to know that even though I may be just being grumpy there is someone else who feels much the same way.

Hi Barry your observation re measurement is a great point.

Who would have thought that the demands of fitting out a kitchen in a submarine would pay huge dividend and provide McDonalds with efficient kitchens where many bodies can fit and turn out huge amounts of tucker.

And I must admit when one looks around and observes the fashion industry, the cosmetic industry, the gambling industry...and this list could go on and on...the waste of physical and time resources makes the money spent on a gw device seem like spending on a necessity.

Hi Steven. It was your input I was fishing for and I thank you for post.
I often think about when I purchased a fax machine for the office.
I had no idea how I could use it and my sole motivation was to be able to display on my letterhead a fax number just like the large professional firms and to be one up on my opposition.
But then I found I could fax my adds into the Sydney Morning Herald and not sit on the phone dictating them to their operator.
And then instead of a mad dash each week to deliver adds and photos to Homes Pictorial I could just fax them...
Or my first portable phone, again purchased as an attempt to one up the competition via appearance suddenly was a big help if you needed to pick up a house key whilst on the road.
So I expect with GW doors will open we can not yet imagine.
Thanks for taking the time to post I appreciate the fact that you did.
Alex

[sjastro]

Hi Steven. It was your input I was fishing for and I thank you for post.
I often think about when I purchased a fax machine for the office.
I had no idea how I could use it and my sole motivation was to be able to display on my letterhead a fax number just like the large professional firms and to be one up on my opposition.
But then I found I could fax my adds into the Sydney Morning Herald and not sit on the phone dictating them to their operator.
And then instead of a mad dash each week to deliver adds and photos to Homes Pictorial I could just fax them...
Or my first portable phone, again purchased as an attempt to one up the competition via appearance suddenly was a big help if you needed to pick up a house key whilst on the road.
So I expect with GW doors will open we can not yet imagine.
Thanks for taking the time to post I appreciate the fact that you did.
Alex

That's profound Alex.
I never saw the subtle connection between GWs, fax machines and portable phones.......

On your favourite topic of inflation, very low frequency GWs are predicted to exist.
One day we might be able to directly observe inflation itself.

Steven

[deanm (Dean)]

As a scientist, I have to say that one phenomenon drives most of our advances in understanding: serendipity.
When we stumble across unexpected things - those 'gosh!' or 'where did that come from?!' moments - we learn new things.
But you have to be looking for something in the first place.
We can't just sit on our hands.
Dean

[multiweb (Marc)]

Australia sounds like the perfect place to build one of those detectors. Plenty of flat remote areas and geologically stable. Also a great opportunity for kids who want to get into some serious science.

[sjastro]

Originally Posted by sjastro

Further GW detectors are necessary in order to pin point the location of the source.
The coordinates of the two GW discoveries made by the Hanford and Livingston detectors remain unknown.

I could not disagree anymore with this being a waste of money.
We are in the first stage in the new frontier of GW astronomy.

The electromagnetic spectrum has its limitations, namely we can't observe beyond the cosmic radiation background which is opaque across the entire spectrum.
GW astronomy will allow us to penetrate this barrier and take us back to a period just after the Big Bang.
Unfortunately due to Mr Heisenberg the actual event will remain beyond us.

The direct observation of Black Holes is another possibly as the event horizon is only a barrier in the electromagnetic spectrum.

Steven

Here is the Scientific American article on gravitational wave astronomy.
Bad luck we won't be around in a century's time to see what sort of a Universe is opened up.
I would like to have seen what the Universe was like 10^-32 seconds after the Big Bang.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...ave-astronomy/

Steven

[casstony]

While I'm in the 'all research is good' camp, I see two very pressing priorities where money could be spent: preserving our environment here on Earth and colonizing space. The way things are going, medical research into defending the human body against radiation damage might be beneficial in both environments.