how much dark matter in black holes

[ispom]

Hallo friends of theoretical problems!

what do you think about dark matter in black holes?

I considered myself the following:

stellar black holes can only be composed of baryonic matter,
they was coming into being by stellar collapses,
and the stars was consisted of normal matter.

but what about supermassive black holes in galactic centres?
they arose in the process of galaxy formation,
must also composed 70 % of dark matter,
so as the average composition of the entire universe

do I'm right with this supposition?

[stephenmcnelley]

Right, wrong, we can only theorise over these things at this stage ispom, science is still very much about 'best guesses' when itcomes to extreme astrophysics,despite claims of breakthroughs.
As in all cases of nature though matter related values and variables must simply balance in terms of mass/energy and influencefor it to be as sustainable as it appears to have been, so i guess your supposition about dark matter distribution between our space and black hole consumption/dynamics would be hard to disprove.
I am certainly no expert or even qualified to debate these things though.
There are some well informed people here so you will get a variety of opinons.

[mickoking]

It is shown by the rotation of galaxies and behavior of galaxy clusters that most of the dark matter lies out side of black holes.

[ispom]

ESA’s Integral space observatory has spotted a blast of gamma rays from a suspected black hole in the Milky Way:

http://www.esa.int/esaCP/SEM8SDANMUE_index_0.html

In these systems, the gravity of the black hole is ripping the Sun-like star to pieces. As the doomed star orbits the black hole, it lays down its gas in a disc, know as an accretion disc, surrounding the black hole.

But it seem to happen not in the right centre of our galaxy but in the immediate vicinity of the supermassive black hole there.

This is allowing astronomers to understand the gamma-ray characteristics of the galactic centre and its celestial objects, better than ever before.

Comparing the shape of the light curve to others on file revealed that this was an eruption thought to come from a binary star system in which one component is a star like our Sun whereas the other is a black hole.

not mentoined the problem of dark matter,
is it not of topical interest for astronomers?

[stephenmcnelley]

We just dont really know that much about it yet that has any real substance.......lol

[xelasnave]

If you look at the size of Abel 2029 some half a billion light years across there is only one explanation as to how such a large object can exsist (without speculating on why it should be so large which is interesting in itself). Dark matter or dark energy acts as a pushing force..personally I doubt the exsistence of dark matter and that all that exsits is dark energy (which is generated as suggested in my gravity rain ideas ) If dark energy can hold Abel 2029 in shape with a pushing force (and I think thats the way "they" see it) why should this pushing force stop before it reaches the objects within the many solar systems throughout. It makes little sence why such a force will stop at mans door of understanding and not pass right through.
If we were to take conventional thought for a moment there is no reason to suggest that the dark matter (which I dont think exsists) in any black hole should be "average" it may be it may be above or below average ...but if we cant find all the dark matter we can say it is all locked up in black holes
Ever try to imagine what it must be like inside a black hole?? Time must slow and electrons fall in a heap as the nucliususss get stacked like oranges..except they would be black I guess.. I often wonder .
alex

[stephenmcnelley]

yes, things could become slightly uncomfortable past the event horizon then to the singularity.
I bet everyone here though is curious to experience it somehow all the same, is it really what we assume it is????

[xelasnave]

I often wonder if spirals are really like a cd with a hole in the centre.. which may be the way it is cause you would think at the centre there would be more than one or two black holes orbiting the centre...which of course would be like a window from one side of space to the other (either side of a typical spiral) would dark energy fit throuh ? I often wonder about the probability that there will be more than one black hole..if more than one there will be a hole one would think... such a system would see some nice jets..
alex

[ispom]

so we have supermassive black holes with dark matter since the time of galaxy building in the galactic centers,
and galactic halos, also dominatet by dark matter.

intermediate (in the galactic disk) is no dm (or fewest of all).

do you agree?

[Talon Karrde]

Dark Energy has a 'pushing' force, but Dark Matter doesn't.

Originally Posted by wikipedia

In astrophysics, dark matter is matter that does not emit or reflect enough electromagnetic radiation (such as light, X-rays and so on) to be detected directly, but whose presence may be inferred from its gravitational effects on visible matter.

So if there is 'dark matter' in black holes, all it would do is affect the gravity of the black hole. Since we can't interact with regular matter once it's inside the black hole either, I don't see the difference. Dark matter in a black hole would be exactly the same as regular matter in a black hole.

That's my interpretation. It doesn't seem to be much of a 'problem' since I can't think of any effects it would have that we could detect. All we can really tell is the mass and possibly the spin of the black hole anyway. Nothing inside it would have any effect outside it, that's the point of it being black.

-TK

[ispom]

Originally Posted by Talon Karrde

....It doesn't seem to be much of a 'problem' since I can't think of any effects it would have that we could detect. All we can really tell is the mass and possibly the spin of the black hole anyway. Nothing inside it would have any effect outside it, that's the point of it being black.

-TK

you are right,
but the question is:
where we must seek the dark mater?

in supermassive black holes, in galactic halos, in intergalactic gas…?

some weeks ago was described here:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/08/060821133930.htm

how the collision of two galaxy clusters can be interpreted as direct proof for the existence and some characteristics of the dark matter.

We will not can see so direct the dark matter in black holes,
just as we may not see baryonic matter in it,

but it would be fine, we had a theoretical model,
whether and how much dm is behind the horizon

[xelasnave]

Dark matter falls into two catagories..wimps and macos.. wimps small particles that interact weakly..the use of the word weakly seeks by that to relate wimps to gravity but as far as I can see there is no offerring as to how such particles "weakly interact" and interact with "what" for that matter. One search for wimps is done in drums of cleaning fliud with cameras to record the interaction of a paticle ..such data being accumulated to get numbers and how they compare to the theories interested in a head count.
Nuetrinos could be spelt differently also .. They are candidates for wimps and dark matter and are just like my gravity rain particle..small beyond observation have mass and travel at C ..yes have mass and travel at C.. someone said it and we all thought that was impossible ..not all the energy in the Universe can propell a grain of sand at C according to the sums. so finding a nuetrino has mass and travells at c is very exciting stuff.. I say they are the tip of the gravity rain ice berg but then I would say that about anything such is my preoccupation with gravity. AND macos are big units I figure like there being more brown giants than they have expected.. I think the macos side is dead in the water as so far findings have not helped support dark matter as being found in the macos sources.
If you see dark energy as being everywhere that is the only way something as large as gallaxies can be held in place attraction from within will fail to do it..model it but there can be not other result its the same as the stick in glue example..which I hope you noticed or that will be meaningless. I think it is popular thought that dark energy pushes ..it is not just me say as such.. Dr E was looking for a cosmological constant so to explain this pushing force, he later withdrew the idea but over the last couple of years it and similar approaches to dark energy are being considered.
alex

alex

[ispom]

Searching for Dark Matter Particles Here on Earth


A powerful detector, deep underground in a mineshaft in Minnesota might be able to get to the bottom of the mystery. The Cryogenic Dark Matter Search II project will attempt to detect Weakly Interacting Massive Particles (aka WIMPS).


http://www.stanford.edu/dept/news/pr/2006/pr-cdms-112906.html

[stephenmcnelley]

So are you researching for the benefit of a research paper ispom? That is only an assumption... forgive my question.
We are very forward in being backwards, or is that the other way around? in the southern hemisphere as you might perhaps have experienced?
Good questions you ask all the same.

[xelasnave]

Heck if this is for any legitimate assignment etc disregard all of my input ..It is not totally excepted thinking .. but the hunt is on for machos and wimps.. wimps probably holds the key. But imagine dark energy's power that it can hold Abel 2029 (500,000,000,000 light years across) in place ..also wonder why that power stops, in mans current thinking, outside our galaxy or outside our planet ..why would such a powerful force stop there and not act to the very centre of our globe .
alex

[ispom]

IMHO there are following options for dark matter:

WIMPs (the scientists' best guesses at what makes up dm)
neutrinos
AXIONS (theorized particles)
and not seen normal matter (black holes, brown dwarfs)


WIMPS are thought to be neutral in charge and weigh more than 100 times the mass of a proton. At the moment these elementary particles exist only in theory and have never been observed. Scientists think they haven't found them yet because they're excruciatingly difficult to capture.
They mostly pass through the Earth without scattering , like neutrinos.

But neutrinos are catched already, WIMPS not yet.
Now it should happen by detectors made of crystals of solid silicon and solid germanium,
cooled down at 50 thousandths of a degree above absolute zero.
described here:

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=21383

assumed, one will find WIMPS,
then that however would be only a qualitative proof,
one then not yet knows the portion of baryonic matter hardly to measure.

then goes the search for the AXIONs .
how does one make that?
or do they are perhaps already no longer candidates of topical interest?

right?

fragende

[xelasnave]

I think you are well informed I wasa mistaken because I thought nuetrinos qualified as wimps. Anyways I think we will not find dark matter but we will find dark energy..which of course really is my gravity rain idea.. I believe gravity is a universal pushing force a continuation of the dark energy to the ground is a simple way of putting it. I think the dark energy will prove to be wimps which because of their infinite numbers and distribution will act like a pressure translating as gravity being a pushing force not one of currently accepted force of attraction. Why would dark energy which shows as a pushing force and capable of holding Abel2029 in its grip not reach us on the surface and act on us as it acts on a galaxy.
Just something to think about.
OR try drawing where dark energy comes from outside a galaxy ..I cant see there can be a limit of its presence.
alex
alex

[ispom]

I think we will not find dark matter but we will find dark energy..which of course really is my gravity rain idea

I will think about, Alex.